Spot meter advice, No.2

[jetcode]

As the OP of this thread, I think it's about time I stepped in. I asked a question which seemed to have a multitude of answers, but thank you to Cyrus the answer was simply to do with the angle of the grey card. When angled correctly they readings of incident and reflected match, as I would have expected, and perfect exposure for the picture in question.

How do I know it was a perfect exposure? A black bag against a white wall, looked exactly as that, a black bag against a white wall. NO Zone system, NO find the true ASA of the film. NO under/over development.

Ironically Horses are what I take most of my pictures of (using an incident meter, of course)!

mark - another trick I learned is to meter (spot) the back of your hand in the same light as your subject, if you have fair skin it should be about zone 6, I use this to reaffirm what I think is zone 5 or zone 3 when I don't have a graycard

[Vaughn]

snip...
Ironically Horses are what I take most of my pictures of (using an incident meter, of course)!

Whatever works!

Vaughn

[GPS]

As the OP of this thread, I think it's about time I stepped in. I asked a question which seemed to have a multitude of answers, but thank you to Cyrus the answer was simply to do with the angle of the grey card. When angled correctly they readings of incident and reflected match, as I would have expected, and perfect exposure for the picture in question.

How do I know it was a perfect exposure? A black bag against a white wall, looked exactly as that, a black bag against a white wall. NO Zone system, NO find the true ASA of the film. NO under/over development.

Ironically Horses are what I take most of my pictures of (using an incident meter, of course)!

Mark, I'm slightly afraid, your solution is rather a chimère... "When angled correctly..." - and how do you decide the "correct" angle? Comparing the spot reading to the incident reading you took before? Well try it the other way then - measure the gray card "correctly angled" first and take then the incident reading... will they match? You can get a whole plethora of readings while juggling with the gray card - how do you know (a priori) what is the correct angle?

[Vaughn]

GPS...that's why I said "whatever works". Basically, tilting the gray card until it matches the incident meter sounds like a way to calibrate the reflective meter/reading and the gray card with the incident reading...for future meterings, all one has to do is to be consistant with how one uses the card. As with any method, the proof will be in the negatives.

Vaughn

[GPS]

GPS...that's why I said "whatever works". Basically, tilting the gray card until it matches the incident meter sounds like a way to calibrate the reflective meter/reading and the gray card with the incident reading...for future meterings, all one has to do is to be consistant with how one uses the card. As with any method, the proof will be in the negatives.

Vaughn

Beside the fact that my question was addressed to Mark - what do you mean by "consistent" with how one uses the card? Do you want to say that if on one scene the 50° inclination of the card gives the same result as the incident reading it is THE correct angle for the future reference for all scenes?
You didn't answer the question at all. What is the "correct" angle that gives the same reading as the incident metering? Or for you -what is the "consistent" way of using the card which gives the same reading as an incident metering?

[Vaughn]

I guess it does not really matter -- as long as one produces consistantly exposed (and easily printed) negatives. There may be no definite answer to the question you asked.

It is not the way I would use a gray card, nor the way I would ever meter in the landscape (99.999% of my photography), but whatever method one uses, I find keeping notes and reflecting upon the results relative to the method quickly standardizes one's working methods and can lead to repeatable results and good negs.

All is fair in love and light!

Vaughn

[cyrus]

Mark, I'm slightly afraid, your solution is rather a chimère... "When angled correctly..." - and how do you decide the "correct" angle? Comparing the spot reading to the incident reading you took before? Well try it the other way then - measure the gray card "correctly angled" first and take then the incident reading... will they match? You can get a whole plethora of readings while juggling with the gray card - how do you know (a priori) what is the correct angle?

Comparing an incident meter to a gray card is not intended to be totally accurate -- but it is simply a quick and easy way to do the best one can do under the circumstances. The error that comes from any reasonable change in the alignment of the card is tolerable, especially for BW work. If it is close, that's good enough. If it is not close, then you have a problem.

Other than that, the only way to calibrate a reflective meter is to send it in to a shop with the necessary equipment -- but, technically, who knows if THEIR machine is correctly calibrated?

[steve simmons]

Comparing an incident meter to a gray card is not intended to be totally accurate --

do you mean consistent?


steve simmons

[GPS]

Comparing an incident meter to a gray card is not intended to be totally accurate -- but it is simply a quick and easy way to do the best one can do under the circumstances. The error that comes from any reasonable change in the alignment of the card is tolerable, especially for BW work. If it is close, that's good enough. If it is not close, then you have a problem.

Other than that, the only way to calibrate a reflective meter is to send it in to a shop with the necessary equipment -- but, technically, who knows if THEIR machine is correctly calibrated?

So?? Does that answer the question addressed to Mark?? If it rains, some people use umbrellas. Some not.

[cyrus]

So?? Does that answer the question addressed to Mark?? If it rains, some people use umbrellas. Some not.

Yes it does answer the question.
The answer is that testing using a gray card is the best option and you're going to have to live with the vagaries that comes from having a "plethora" of readings depending on the tilt of the card - unless you're willing to spend the time and money to have the meter professionally calibrated.