What is this part on this Crown?

[DrTang]

The solenoid system pre-dated shutters with built-in sync, and allowed the use of flash with non-sync shutters. The concept dates from around 1930, when flashbulbs became available (speaking of paradigm shifts).

this..and they can be adjusted for the particular bulb one used with the little screw or nut thing on the top or bottom of them

I have an old dagor in a non sync shutter and am considering putting one of those things (I have a small box of them somewhere..and probably even an instruction and adjustment manual) on it to use with flash

[tbeaman]

Nope. The flashbulb delay was built into the shutter itself.

That's what the M sync setting on the shutter was for.

Maybe I stand corrected. Seems the Supermatic shutter depicted had the 20 ms lag built in to the shutter. So, in this case the solenoid was superfluous for purposes of the delay. So here it was probably set up only for use as an electric cable release.

Other shutters, however, without sync posts on side of the shutter (Graphex or Rapax, non-Synchromatic, for instance) used similar solenoids to lag the shutter opening by 20 ms. while the M bulb ramped up to speed.

No, you were correct originally. The image depicts a Supermatic X, which has no delay sync option built-in; ie. there is no M sync setting. A lot of 127 Ektars and 135 Optars on these press cameras came in shutters that only had (zero-delay electronic) X sync.

I think because a lot of the press guys used solenoids, as you mention, like an electric cable release to trigger the shutter from the flash, they probably had no need for a shutter with a more sophisticated trigger system. I imagine it was also an added expense, both in terms of initial cost, and maintenance.

Plus, as was said, the solenoid system existed first, and pros have always been the most reluctant to adopt technological changes tied to convenience and automation. Those are surely the sign of amateurs and must be rife with unreliability!

[Leigh]

The image depicts a Supermatic X, which has no delay sync option built-in; ie. there is no M sync setting.

Yep. I missed the (X) at the end.

Thanks for the correction.

- Leigh

[Ivan J. Eberle]

Graflex Super Graphics and Super Speed Graphics have an internally wired solenoid contained within the front standard, and a switch on the camera body, with batteries to power it independent of flash. This camera came out about 1958 so it was well into the professional adoption of electronic flash. (Just looked at a Peerless catalog from 1957 on the Butkus site, not from memory! Crown Graphic with a Kalart RF and 135mm f/4.7= $149)

So, yes, I'd venture to say this was considered a design improvement over the Crown's plunger for the shutter release aspect alone.

[Leigh]

Just looked at a Peerless catalog from 1957 on the Butkus site, not from memory!

Could you post the URL? Sounds like a good source of info.

Thanks.

- Leigh

[tbeaman]

Yep. I missed the (X) at the end.

Thanks for the correction.

- Leigh

No problem. I wouldn't normally natter like that, but you never know where these threads will pop up. Anyway, it is easy to miss!

Could you post the URL? Sounds like a good source of info.

Looks like he's talking about these:
http://www.butkus.org/chinon/booklet...less_store.htm

I never cease to be amazed by the veritable font of awesome stuff on that site. I really ought to send the guy $10.

[al olson]

Graflex Super Graphics and Super Speed Graphics have an internally wired solenoid contained within the front standard, and a switch on the camera body, with batteries to power it independent of flash. This camera came out about 1958 so it was well into the professional adoption of electronic flash. (Just looked at a Peerless catalog from 1957 on the Butkus site, not from memory! Crown Graphic with a Kalart RF and 135mm f/4.7= $149)

So, yes, I'd venture to say this was considered a design improvement over the Crown's plunger for the shutter release aspect alone.

I believe the later Crowns also had the solenoid embedded in the front standard. As I recall they also had a red button in the same location as on the Super Graphic. For a view of one, check out post #5 in this thread:

http://www.largeformatphotography.in...ad.php?t=70767

[Jim Jones]

. . . (Just looked at a Peerless catalog from 1957 on the Butkus site, not from memory! Crown Graphic with a Kalart RF and 135mm f/4.7= $149) . . . .

It sounds like a bargain, compared to prices before WWII. Richard Paine's A Review of Graflex gives the 1940 price of an Anniversary model with Carl Zeiss lens as $132. A flash and a few other accessories added substantially to that. It was a lot of money in 1940 when pay for an enlisted man in the Navy started at $21 a month, and rose to only $30 after four months. The price of a Cadillac started at $1345, and Chevrolet about half as much. Compare the value of a functional Anniversary or 1957 Crown to a driveable 1957 Caddie or Chevvy! These cameras are more practical for everyday use than 54-year-old cars, too.

[tom thomas]

An interesting thread about flash synchronization going here. Bob, your original question shows a Crown equipped with a Heiland Solenoid that looks like it was mounted as an after market option to mate the users Heiland Flash Unit versus a Graflex one.

Any time delays associated with it may differ a bit from the Graflex one. I haven't tried researching it yet but I found mention in the instruction manual for the Graflex Flash Synchronizer, Graflex Flashing Unit stating that the Graflex Solenoid Releases are factory adjusted to be full open 18 to 20 milliseconds after the circuit is closed by the main switch. (Sw is on the Flash sync Unit, better known by some as Luke's light sabre.)

This time delay is assumed for the 2 or 3 cell battery unit. The manual says to turn the cap "up" one turn for a 4-cell battery unit, and two turns "up" for a 5-cell battery. This will lengthen the time delay to accomodate the additional flash units used along with the larger battery supplies.

I recently received a group of Graflex manuals with my latest E-B* "win" of a 23 Crown Graphic with a F4.5/101 lens mounted in Kodak Graphic Supermatic shutter. It doesn't have "X" sync, only F and M. Neither does it have a solenoid mounted on the lens board, nor a place to mount one. Humm! In fact, my 23 Minature and 23 Speed Graphics don't have the solenoid either. They all have the same model lens and shutter.

I did find a mention in a Graflex price listing for "X" shutters stating that an accessory solenoid should be used for "M" flash lamps.

I also found a previous owners handwritten notes on the back of a GE Photolamp and Lighting Data pamphlet that says:
F - Sw. closure 5msec before shutter opens.
X - Sw closure immediately after shutter opens
M - Sw closure 15 ms before shutter open.

Apparently the shutter on my camera has the built in delays for the flash bulbs but no "X" setting.

Al, I checked the photo in post #5 of the thread you mentioned that shows some
red button. The camera pictured there is a very late model Crown with the top mounted Kalart rangefinder. The red button on this model is used to light up the integrated "Focus-spot" used to aid focusing in dim light situations. Is this the red button you are referring to?

I have one of these late-model 45 Speed Graphics with the focus aid mentioned. Oddly enough this late generation camera has a flash solenoid mounted on the lens plate. The lens is a Graflex Optar f4.7/135mm mounted in a Grafhex (X) Synchromatic shutter. That implies that is is X-sync capable but still has the solenoid for those who are still using bulbs instead of the emerging electronic flash technology( or faster bulbs??)

I also received a couple price lists for Graflex cameras and accessories. One, dated February 14, 1952 (Valentine's Day during the Korean War) is the complete dealers retail list of all the camera models and accessories. Even 35mm, Ciroflex, carrying cases, tripod, film adapters, etc are incuded. It's great reading. Even the available lens and shutter combos are pictured with good descriptions of each type.

The 23 Crown Graphic with Graflock back, Graflex Optar f4.5/101mm lens I won is listed at $197.95. This includes one film holder, focusing panel and a coated lens (if indicated. Even Korean War soldiers didn't make enough to comfortably afford one of these nice cameras.

I couldn't either when I enlisted in the US Air Force in Sept 1961. Base salary was $78 a month then, much more even than WWII or Korea era but still very expensive.

Flash and the Focal Plane Shutter. I was wondering how that worked and found the answer interesting. Front shutter necessary for speeds slower than 1/30th sec and for sync with standard flash lamps. Apparently there were special flash bulbs labelled FP that were used with the Focal Plane shutter. I wonder how many if any of those flash bulbs survive today in a dark closet.

tom

[Jim Graves]

Tom ... Per the 1944 edition of Graphic Graflex Photography, all the baby Speeds (at least in 1944) came with a built in focal plane shutter synchronizer (should be two connector prongs on the top back, I think) ... a note at the end of the section reads as follows: At the present time the No.2 or No.2A Superflash lamps and the No.6 and the No.31 Photoflash lamps can be used for focal plane synchronization with the 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 Speed Graphic camera. The 2A and No.31 bulbs are recommended for focal plane shutter use with the 3 1/4 x 4 1/4 and 4 x 5 Speed Graphic cameras.