The value of Rare lenses

[IanG]

The question was a touch tongue in cheek as I've asked about on here in the past few days.

The lens in question is a Carl Zeiss Tessar 165mm (16.6cm) in a dial set Compur shutter made around 1926, that in itself wouldn't be rare, but this one is an f5.3 version, it's in no literature at all ncluding in Thiele's books. There's no doubt it's f5.3 apart from the aperture setting of f5.3, 5.6, 8. 11 etc the outside of the barrel is engraved f5.3 and the entry pupil of the front cells is the right diameter as well for f5.3.

So the dilemma is it's a rare unknown Zeiss lens, I will use it carefully, but then there must be collectors, if so where ?

Ian

[Dan Fromm]

Talk to these people: http://www.zeisshistorica.org/

[goamules]

OK, I'll bite, here is my appraisal:

- A Tessar is worth between $50 and $300 (for a huge one)
- A 165mm is small, I'd knock the top of the range down to $50-150
- Any Tessar faster than F4.5, add 20%, if slower subtract 20% You are now at $50 - $120
- Zeiss lenses do have collectors, add 20% to 100%. You are now back to $50-300.

My best guess is it would sell for $150 - $247.50 on Ebay, properly hyped with keywords like "rare."

[IanG]

OK, I'll bite, here is my appraisal:

- A Tessar is worth between $50 and $300 (for a huge one)
- A 165mm is small, I'd knock the top of the range down to $50-150
- Any Tessar faster than F4.5, add 20%, if slower subtract 20% You are now at $50 - $120
- Zeiss lenses do have collectors, add 20% to 100%. You are now back to $50-300.

My best guess is it would sell for $150 - $247.50 on Ebay, properly hyped with keywords like "rare."

I'd agree except it's rather rare and unknown so that adds anotherdimension.

I'll follow up Dan's link (thanks Dan).

Ian

[goamules]

I'd agree except it's rather rare and unknown so that adds anotherdimension.

I'll follow up Dan's link (thanks Dan).

Ian

That's where my 20-100% increase comes from. Otherwise, it would get no more than $120 on the average auction.

[Steven Tribe]

Ian, my guess is that was a special order for a specific camera maker. There were a lot of 9x12 and 10x15 camera makers in Germany/France, even after the Zeiss/Ikon consolidation. It is possible that camera maker was not happy about the performance of the standard Tessar at F4.5 and insisted the iris was set at F5.3 as a maximum. The optical design may be exactly the same as the F4.5. It's a bit like the various odd focal length version of the Cooke series around 4 - 6" which were supplied to various UK camera makers (best known is APeM) at the same time. The fact that it was originally on a "folder" will not contribute to a premium value!

[CCHarrison]

Dan, I'm all for solidarity among Dans but I have to disagree a little with you.

And in turn, I need to disagree with you a little

Many North American based collectors, including myself, shy away from using a foreign auction house like Westlicht as both seller and buyer*. While they may sometimes get more money for high end items, thats not always the case. Additionally, many buyers, like me, dont like dealing with huge buyers premiums, having to manage 3rd party, costly shipping and not being able to get better descriptions than is provided by Westlicht and similiar auction houses. To each his own, but I will take ebay in almost all circumstances as both buyer and seller - even high end items.

Hugs,

A fellow Dan


* the one item I bought from a Westlicht auction was advertised as a 1/4 plate ROC wood camera - pretty scarce size for these cameras. What showed up was a 4x5 ROC camera. Big mistake by them...I wasnt happy. All they had to do was carefully measure the GG. Rookie mistake

[goamules]

I agree with Dan/CC Harrison on Westlicht. Some super-rare, highly sought after items show up there, like the Leica O-type that went for millions. But a lot of more common, but still collectible lenses sell for less than E-bay, at least the base price. With all the buyer's premiums maybe the price is equal. But how much of that goes to the seller, and how much to the auction house?

[Hermes07]

There are rare lenses that sell for big money because they're niche without a lot of readily-available equivalents (very fast lenses, very long lenses, ultra wide-angle lenses) and there are those which sell for big money because they have a cult status (Heliars, Apo-Lanthars, Petzvals, P&Ss, e.t.c.)

If a lens is uncommon but appears to have nothing special to commend it to photographers, you're relying on a "collector" somewhere buying it purely on the basis that it's rare. While I'm sure they exist, my impression is that they're few and far between compared with photographers. I would think the chances of TWO of them both wanting a relatively unknown lens enough to enter a bidding war for it are low.

[Dan Fromm]

Garret, Dan, of course you're right about selling relatively pedestrian items through Westlicht. But Ian seems to believe that his prize isn't pedestrian. Charlie's Super-Q Gigantar, Barry Lyndon lens, and fast Mirotars (spelling?) aren't pedestrian.

Much of his collection was. The argument for giving Westlicht a crack at all of it came down to convenience and the value of the executrix' time. This isn't so important for Ian since he has just the one lens to sell. If I had it and wanted to cash it in, I'd put it on eBay and happily take what it brought. But Ian's, um, aspirations are higher than mine.

When my late mother-in-law died my wife and I helped her sister the executrix clean out the old lady's apartment. I had a large row with the sisters over how best to dispose of the old lady's trash. They won, we sold the stuff piecemeal for quite some time instead of for not all that much to a clearout specialist. We ended up earning very little for the estate per hour spent trying to sell and packing and shipping.

Hermes07, you're right, collectors are scarce and getting scarcer. Peter Koeln of Westlict took that line with Charlie, partly because it was true, partly, I'm sure, to lower expectations about how much he'd pay for it all.

Cheers,

Dan