Mini Graflex 23 with rollback questions?

[TheDeardorffGuy]

Everybody thinks I lug a Deardrff around all the time. But two of my favorite cameras are a 2x3 Speed Graphic with a roll back and a 2x3 Graflex RB with a Roll back. Fun to use and you get a nice neg. You really should use an air hose and blow all the schmutz out of these cameras. They all have 50 years of dirt inside.

[Dan Fromm]

2x3 Graphics' movements?

~ 18 mm front rise. No front fall.

On paper, ~ 10 mm front shift right or left. In reality, none until the front standard is completely in front of the bed struts. Not generally useful.

Tilts? None forward, perhaps 15 degrees backwards, useless in most situations unless the front standard is on dropped outer bed. In that case, it will give indirect front fall when the lens' focal length and focused distance are right. In other words, useless.

All this freshly measured with a 2x3 Crown Graphic. If your measurements don't agree with mine, please share them with us.

And, since no one has said it, lenses originally issued with these cameras can't really use all of the front rise. These cameras cry out for modern lenses with more coverage than original issue, if only to disappear part of the foreground when getting closer isn't possible.

I like my little Graphics, don't understand why other people feel the need to lie about what they can do. They're capable little cameras, can take very good pictures in the hands of a very good photographer. Isn't that enough?

[C4D]

Dan thank you for the very helpful information with the 2x3 movements details as the introduction to view camera movements will be an important deciding factor on which camera to purchase for his particular subject matter.
18 mm of rise is pretty decent but as you mentioned a modern lens would be ideal for that coverage and wow no front fall at all with the 2x3 could be a deal breaker. A camera with front rise, at least little front fall, left and right shift, and front and backwards tilt would be ideal..... so a 4x5 lol

[Dan Fromm]

Understand, Mark, that although the numbers will change a little for 4x5 Graphics the story's the same. Good for what they're good for, not good replacements for a view camera. To be fair, the Super Graphic has more usable movements than the Pacemakers.

[Oren Grad]

18 mm of rise is pretty decent but as you mentioned a modern lens would be ideal for that coverage and wow no front fall at all with the 2x3 could be a deal breaker. A camera with front rise, at least little front fall, left and right shift, and front and backwards tilt would be ideal..... so a 4x5 lol

Horseman 2x3 technical cameras are getting awfully cheap these days. If your friend can afford a bit more than what a 2x3 Graphic would cost, he can get a rugged, modern, all-metal camera with all the movements you're looking for. The VH is the latest model and includes a rotating back. It comes in two versions - VH-R with rangefinder that couples to cammed lenses, and plain VH without the rangefinder. The VH is smaller, lighter and usually cheaper, so if your friend doesn't intend to use the rangefinder, that would be the way to go.

[unixrevolution]

Understand, Mark, that although the numbers will change a little for 4x5 Graphics the story's the same. Good for what they're good for, not good replacements for a view camera. To be fair, the Super Graphic has more usable movements than the Pacemakers.

I should have mentioned..and I've only just now remembered....I very carefully researched my press camera purchase and looked all over for information on movements before buying my Super Graphic, and I hand picked it because it has more liberal movements than most.

I apologize if I misled anyone into thinking the movements of a 4x5 Super Graphic are typical for all 4x5 and similar press cameras.

I would be looking harder at that Linhof now

[tim o'brien]

My 2 pesos...

If I wanted to learn about LF procedures I would not use a 2x3 graphic. 4x5? Maybe, but understand you will get the process down but not the technique for movements. Depends on what you want to shoot. I did quite well for years with a 4x5 Speed, but then again, i shot mostly landscapes with little requirements for movements. I have a couple of 2x3s, fun for what they do, the novelty of a 2x3 sheet of film shot in a Graphmatic is cool. But with all the work you are going to do, just shoot 4x5. 4x the quality. The weight diff between a 2x3 and 4x5 Crown isn't enough you are going to notice even on a moderate hike. And using a 2x3 roll back? I like it for the variety of film still available but it's not LF. LF is the whole process... loading holders, accurate and deliberate composition and exposure, and deliberate development, very different in concept from MF. Each step requires mastery, a hundred different things to control. Shooting 6x12 or 6x17 isn't LF, it is still MF. If this is your goal, learn to shoot with a decent MF camera and expand to the larger format using 95% MF techniques.

JMHO,


tim in san jose

[SpeedGraphicMan]

There is no MINI GRAFLEX as has been stated.

Yes and no...

I have an early 2x3 Speed Graphic which is referred to in all of the Graflex literature of the period as, "THE MINIATURE SPEED GRAPHIC".

The original manual I have even says that on the front cover...

The first 2x3's Speeds were called "Miniature" and also "Baby".

[Dan Fromm]

According to the bible, tenth edition, the official name of the 2x3 Speed Graphic sold between, iirc, 1938 and 1946, is Miniature Speed Graphic. Baby is not part of its official name. Mini is not part of its official name.

By the book, Graflex has two meanings: (1) SLR made by Graflex Inc. and predecessors and (2) the company Graflex Inc. There is no such thing as a Speed Graflex or Miniature Speed Graflex or or Mini Speed Graflex or Baby Speed Graflex or Crown Graflex except in the minds of people who don't speak the Graflex (here's another use) language.

[David A. Goldfarb]

Following on Tim in San Jose's comments--I definitely found easier to shoot 4x5" and eventually 2x3" after starting with 8x10". On the big glass I could really see what was going on, so I could develop intuitions that made it easier to work with smaller format view cameras.