Wet mounting workflow

[Mark McCarvill]

Hi. Are there any Epson 4870 or other flatbed scanner users scanning their negatives using Kami mounting fluid and / or scan-mounting tape?

I'd be interested in learning about your workflow – which negative holder you use and whether you’ve modified your scanner in any way (e.g. silicone sealed edges of the glass). I'd also be interested in hearing where I might buy Kami fluid or scan-mounting tape here in Toronto.

I did my own crude experiment by simply mask-taping down a 6x9 cm negative on my flatbed scanner and was impressed with the improvement in sharpness. The unsharpened images are available here for those who might be curious to see the difference:

www.stepwise.ca/crop - taped.jpg

www.stepwise.ca/crop - not taped.jpg

Thanks

[Darin Cozine]

It's hard to tell much by the clips, Mark.
I see that the taped image has much more contrast, but it's hard to tell if there is more detail.

Was there any change in the contrast settings?

[Mark McCarvill]

Hi Darin. I've posted a larger, combined file which may show the difference better - www.stepwise.ca/crop - combined.jpg.

And yes, the taped image probably received a little more contrast (before I decided to do this experiment). I tried to minimize any contrast difference between the two images in the combined file I just posted.

[Eric Jones]

Hmm...we were just talking about his in the scanners? thread listed a little below. I use Kami Fluid and Kami Tape on my Epson. I just tape down the top of a piece of Acetate. Then liberally spray some Mounting Fluid on the Scanner Glass. I then mount my film emulsion down (this requires flipping the image in Photoshop) and liberally cover the base of film with fluid before laying the rest of the acetate sheet over the piece of film. I then seal the bottom of the acetate with tape and push out any air bubbles that may be on the emulsion or the base side and seal the two other sides of the acetate. I have not sealed my scanner glass with anything because I just keep the fluid from nearing the sides of the glass. The scans are about 200% sharper and 500% cleaner. Well worth the time, which is really only a minute. Try www.aztek.com for Mounting Fluid, Acetate and Tape.

[John Flavell]

Is there a way to explain how close to drumscans this method will produce. I realize that opens up a can of worms, but there are those of us about to make the jump to the 4870 and still have a doubt or two.

[Erik Sherman]

Pardon my ignorance, which is pretty significant, but how do you work with mounting fluid? I get the idea that the fluid goes on the scanner glass, the negative on the fluid, more fluid on the negative, and acetate over the whole lot, but how do you clean off the negative afterwards? The glass? Can the fluid or process damage the negative?

[QT Luong]

The fluid is certainly safe for the negative/transparency. It is the same fluid that is routinely used for mounting
them to a drum. It's possible on the other hand, that it would leave residue on the scanner's glass. This would
depend on the scanner/fluid combination. If Eric confirms that the Kami doesn't damage the Epson's glass this
is good news.

[Eric Jones]

I can only speak to the Kami mounting fluid as that is the only product I have used. I have been mounting on my Epson for a few months now and have had no problems what so ever. The Kami fluid evaporates very quickly off of the film and I wipe all of the remainig fluid off the glass and I let the residual evaporate. I then just hit the scanner glass with some Windex and give it a little buffing with a Photex Anti-Static scanner wipe and it's good to go for any other type of scanning (documents, prints, etc.) As far as Flat bed vs. Drum : I will throw up a 6x7 (I know it's the LF Site, lol, but I only have B&W 4x5's) Velvia Trannie and scan the identical slide on my Howtek 4000 and my Epson 3170. I don't have the larger Epson, so I can not compare the 4x5's. I'll try to do it by Tursday and post some examples for everyone and I'll try to keep everything as equal as possible (matching the max resolution of 3200dpi of the Epson). I'll keep you posted.

[Don Bryant]

Eric,

I have two questions about wet mounting if you could indulge me please.

1) How do you keep the film square relative to the scan path?

2) What kind of expense should one expect to get started?

Thanks,

Don Bryant

[Phil Lippincott]

Hi, I'm one of the AZTEK guys.

We are the ones that make and distribute the KAMI solutions and we also acquired the Howtek drum scanner company 2002. In addition we make software for and service both Howtek, as well as, we are an EPSON ProFocus reseller. So we like and use al lof these products. We like the EPSON products very much.

KAMI helps the optical quality of all films and scanners that can use it. It fills the film grain increasing the optical visibilirty, as well as: cleaning the film, makes the film and scanner anti-static, and removes dust and minor scratch visibility.

Drum scanners have two major benefits over all CCD scanners. The first one is that drum scanners capture each pixel as an individual spot with variable spot size control via apertures and even more important they have Photo Multiplier sensors that can see about 30 to 40% more density response than any CCD sensor.

CCd scanners need to always have a lens or lenses to focus the CCD sensor on the film. The CCD sensor is a "Stick" or linear array that captures an entire raster line at a time. This is why there is lens fall off at the outer edges of CCD captures, because the scan quality can only be as good as the lense and its sweet spot field of focus.

Due to the above drum scanners always will have an advantage for optical quality and density response. You can visit a web site at http://www.scannerforum.com to review how a number of various manufaturers and scanner models have been benchmarked with tests of the U.S. Airforce Optical Visibility Target and the Kodak ST-34 ISO Status A Density Scanner Calibration target. Irrespective of the various manufacturer spefification claims you will see there the actual Density Response, Dmax and Optical Visibility Maximum Resolutions from the scanners when you scan at the advertised highest resolutions.

The Howtek D4000 does scan at optically 4000 dpi when you ask for it and it does have an ISO Dmax of 3.8. No flatbed or CCD scanner from any manufacturer can match or exceed this capaibility irrespective of their advertised claims.

This in no way should diminish the value and benefit of using CCD scanners for speed, convenience or other factors than highest possible digital film scanning quality. My firm AZTEK believes this stongly this is why we too make (in addition to drum scanners) a very high quality professional CCD flatbed scanner the AZTEK Plateau.

Sincerely,
Phil Lippincott

AZTEK
www.aztek.com
1-800-GRAPH-55