Looking for a new camera: Shen-Hao vs Chamonix

[thechrisproject]

I use a Shen Hao TFC45 non-folding camera and love it. It's harder to find and gets overlooked. Not as versitile but just wanted to let you know it's out there. It's good to have options.

Any more options and I think I'm going to get stuck with decision paralysis.

[Gem Singer]

"If you can't pay, you can't play."

All kidding aside, large format photography has the tendency to become expensive. When you add the cost of a focusing loupe, dark cloth, film holders, tripod, carrying case, etc., the cost begins to add up very quickly.

If you thought the image on the ground glass of that 4X5 monorail was impressive, wait till you get a glimpse of the image on an 8X10 ground glass. You'll be hooked and realize that there's no turning back.

[mandoman7]

"If you can't pay, you can't play."

All kidding aside, large format photography has the tendency to become expensive. When you add the cost of a focusing loupe, dark cloth, film holders, tripod, carrying case, etc., the cost begins to add up very quickly.

If you thought the image on the ground glass of that 4X5 monorail was impressive, wait till you get a glimpse of the image on an 8X10 ground glass. You'll be hooked and realize that there's no turning back.

Until you start adding up your film costs!

I love using my 8x10 and looking at the negatives. One of the greatest things about it for me, though, is how easy it makes the 4x5 seem after taking the 8x into the field.

John

[Jrewt]

Until you start adding up your film costs!

I love using my 8x10 and looking at the negatives. One of the greatest things about it for me, though, is how easy it makes the 4x5 seem after taking the 8x into the field.

John

I totally agree with that one. There's no way I could afford to shoot 8x10 color right now. I'm doing all my BW work 8x10, and color 4x5 just to keep the costs down.

[Really Big Cameras]

[QUOTE=walter23;450615]Yes, with a 90mm lens you will need a bag bellows for any real movement. This isn't a bad thing - I consider it a good thing (other cameras may give slightly more movement with the stock bellows but then don't have a bag bellows option, so you lose out in the end).[QUOTE]

I was playing around with the Chamonix 045n-1 last night, with various lenses and the universal bellows just to see what it's capable of.

As Clement stated previously, with the universal bellows, the Chamonix can easily handle full movements with most 90mm lenses. You can easily get a full 45mm of rise (max. permissable direct front rise) with a 90mm lens focused at infinity with the universal bellows. The only 90mm whose coverage MIGHT be limited by the universal bellows is the 90mm Super Angulon XL.

For lenses shorter than 90mm, the only readily available lens whose coverage MIGHT exceed the movement capabilities would be the 72mm Super Angulon XL. Most other lenses this wide, have rather limited image circles (typically 163 - 195mm). For these lenses, you'll run out image circle before you reach the limits of the universal bellows.

The reason, I used MIGHT in reference to the two Super Angulon XL lenses is that I don't currently have either to perform a test and provide a definitive answer.

So, on 4x5, unless you are using one of the two Super Angulon XL lenses with extreme movements, the universal bellows will not be a limiting factor.

If you shoot roll film formats and AND require extreme movements with lenses shorter than 90mm, the bag bellows would be the best solution.

As Clement mentioned in his post, for most 4x5 users, the Chamonix universal bellows really IS universal. And, if you buy it, in place of the standard belllows, when you purchase your camera, it's only a $22 adder over the cost of the standard bellows.

Kerry Thalmann
Really Big Cameras

[vinny]

"As Clement mentioned in his post, for most 4x5 users, the Chamonix universal bellows really IS universal. And, if you buy it, in place of the standard belllows, when you purchase your camera, it's only a $22 adder over the cost of the standard bellows."

I would be nice of Chamonix to mention that on their site. Had I known that, I would have done so.

[mandoman7]

I would be nice of Chamonix to mention that on their site. Had I known that, I would have done so.

Bought mine through Kerry recently and he steered me to the right bellows. Its good to buy from someone who's using the equipment and knows his stuff...

John Youngblood

[Really Big Cameras]

Before you take the plunge with your wallet, consider the practicality of using a wooden camera in your work.

Sure, they are beautiful to look at but I don't believe that they take kindly to moisture. Moisture is an important issue with me because I backpack over night and frequently photograph in the Sierra Nevada during the winter. Living in Wisconsin I'm sure that you will be out photographing in the snow often.

While I understand the theory behind your aversion to wooden cameras, as someone who lives in a wet climate (Oregon, it rains a LOT here), in practice I have never had a problem with a wooden camera caused by moisture.

In theory, metal cameras may be more durable and more resistant to the elements, but again, I have never had any problems in these areas with any of the many wooden cameras I've used (Zone VI, Anba Ikeda, Wisner, Canham).

And, while some cameras, like the Canham and Chamonix may use wood in the construction, they don't rely on the precise fit of these pieces for operation of the moving parts. The wooden Canham is basically a metal chassis with a wooden skin. The chassis of the camera is metal, but wood is used for the frames and bed.

The Chamonix has a carbon fiber base and a carbon fiber focusing bed that is driven by a metal lead screw and rides on metal sliders. All of the movements on the Chamonix are metal-on-metal. These parts, like on any metal camera, are CNC milled to very precise tolerances. The only wooden parts on the camera are the front and rear frames. Not only does the wood look nice in these locations, it's also makes the camera lighter than if these frames were made from metal.

That said, every camera is different in terms of features, specs, price, etc. I'm not claiming a wooden camera, let alone any specific brand, is right for everyone, but I would not exclude one from consideration just because wood is one of the materials used in the construction.

Kerry Thalmann
Really Big Cameras

[Gregory Ng]

Kerry, can I use the Horseman 612 with the chamonix 4x5, thanks.

[Bill_1856]

That is a very good point. First off, thanks for looking. I think you are right in some ways. I have very few technical issues that will be solved by using a large format camera. Although there are a fair number of shots I don't take because I can't really do what I want. Most of them have to do with front rise.

But the main reason I'm attracted to large format is because it's a different way of working, a way that fascinates me. I've been shooting with a dSLR for a few years now, and I love it, but it's hard for me to use that tool to shoot in a more slow, contemplative way. I'm not sure I'll ever switch to mainly LF, but I'm sure I will learn things from it that will affect my way of seeing things and shooting. Just borrowing a monorail for a weekend was a fantastic experience. I really like composing on a ground glass. I'm not sure why, but perspective control is important to me. And the experience of having a huge negative is just cool. It blew me away. Enough so that I'd like to do it more.

Is the cost that I'll incur starting up with LF worth it? I'm not sure. $800+ on a body, $500-ish on a lens, another $500 for a v700 scanner... it's gonna get up to $2000 pretty quick. It seems worth it to me.

I couldn't agree more with everything you've said. I've been shooting 4x5 since 1951, and I love doing it, but with rare exceptions the actual results have been pretty pedestrian.
I'm sure that you're aware of PC lenses for your 35mm. My 28 and 35mm PC Nikkors are by far my most used prime lenses. I've never found tilt to be necessary. I believe that 24mm PCs are now available for some brands.
If you don't have PC lenses, you can always just tilt the camera and correct for the resulting perspective distortion in printing by tilting your easel or if you're printing digitally it is easily done in Photoshop.
One other thought -- instead of all those very expensive field cameras with movements that you'll never use, your needs may well be met with a nice used Busch Pressman (model D). Lots of them on eBay, less than $300.