No Trespassing

[Jim Galli]

"People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along?" Rodney King

It seems America has become the nastiest most litigious place on earth. A week ago I was acosted twice for no reason at all. Parked on the highway with plenty of room for safety a Nevada Highway Patrol stopped and told me no one can stop on the highway. What the hell was I doing anyway? An hour later I was parked just off the highway in Schurtz NV. when a pickup truck full of indians honked nastily at me.

I don't get it. It's not about protecting anything, it's just about being as nasty to your fellow man as you possibly can. What's up with that. Rural Nevada used to be a place where you couldn't pass another pickup truck without the driver waving hello.

Makes me sad



The photo at Schurz

[roteague]

Welcome to the USA.

[Michael Graves]

I don't think anybody here is disputing the rights of an individual property owner to control who enters their property. A key issue is, do you have the right to photograph private property from a public access point. The property owner who asks you to remove your tripod leg from his side of the fence has every right to do so, and you have both a legal and a moral obligation to honor his or her request. Shopping malls are included in this. Even when not completed, they are privately owned property. If the security guard asks you to stop photographing, then you better stop photographing.

They cannot ask you not to photograph the exterior of the mall from across the street. There are exceptions to every rule, however. Photographing government installations from anywhere can get you in trouble you can't even imagine. If you are photographing a public utility or part of the national transportation system, you might find yourself in an uncomfortable interview or even have your equipment confiscated.

As far as Bubba ordering you off the public highway to prevent you from photographing his firetrap of a barn....that's a different issue.

[Jordan]

This is an issue that is very near to me. I take many neighborhood landscape pictures and also pictures I like to call "house portraits". I seldom ask to take these pictures as I am never on people's actual property and beyond that they most likely, no matter harmless your photograph may be, will probably be met with resistance. It is something that we as photographers of things other than trees and nature are facing a lot of these days. I also don't have the time to walk up to every door of every house in my photographs and ask for permission before the light changes. I will however if approached chat with the people, give them my business card, and be the overall sweet boy that I am.

[paulr]

Some of my best work was done while tresspassing, while my few attempts at asking permission ended with slammed doors and hung up phones.

I've been caught a couple of times. One plot was foiled when I tried to blend in with a group of window washers in a freight elevator headed to the roof of an industrial building. Almost made it ... then near the top someone pointed and said "who the hell is THAT guy?"

But most less audacious attempts ended with no one the wiser. Do no harm, leave no trace, get in, get out. And don't f'ing sue anyone.

[Daniel_Buck]

personally, if it's marked no trespassing then i won't go. If they don't want anyone on their land, then that means me too. Just because my intentions might be better than some (some may want to vandalize or steal instead of just photographing) I don't think that gives me any more right to bypass their wishes of no trespassing, whatever their reasons for wanting no trespassing are. It's their land, and I suppose they can do what they want with it. There are plenty of other places and things to shoot with out the risk of getting rock salt (or worse!) shot at you from a shot gun.

Maybe I'm just not as bold as some of yall :-)

[SamReeves]

personally, if it's marked no trespassing then i won't go. If they don't want anyone on their land, then that means me too. Just because my intentions might be better than some (some may want to vandelize or steal instead of just photographing) I don't think that gives me any more right to bypass their wishes of no trespassing. There are plenty of other places and things to shoot with out the risk of getting rock salt (or worse!) shot at you from a shot gun.

Maybe I'm just not as bold as some of yall :-)

Sage advice. Always pay attention to fence lines and signs. If there's one tripod leg over the fence, then you are asking for it.

[Jim Jirka]

I grew up in a different time, when people, places and things were respected. When getting the image took a back seat to respecting the surroundings, both private and public. There has been quite a bit of people now a days, bushwacking in natural areas, crossing fence lines in the name of getting the shot.

Treat others as you would like to be treated.

[tim810]

I agree, The instance of the tripod leg is one I will never forget. I pay attention to this religiously.

Sage advice. Always pay attention to fence lines and signs. If there's one tripod leg over the fence, then you are asking for it.

[Kevin Crisp]

I won't shoot on private land marked "no trespassing" without permission. I used to not ask if whatever I wanted to shoot was not posted, since posting is a requirement for prosecution in many places. Maybe 5 years ago I spoke with a landowner in WA state and my mind has changed on this second situation. He explained that people come and break into his unoccupied house and steal things. His anger over that unsolved crime will get transferred to the next person he sees around the property without permission. ('Maybe they came back for more' will be his first thought.) If I had asked him in the first place, then he wouldn't have had to answer a call from a neighbor, drop something else productive he was doing and storm out to see me in his truck. Pretty good points, he made. Things a city slicker wouldn't necessarily appreciate. I asked why he didn't post the house and he said people tear the signs down. These rural people live in justifiable fear that some idiot will burn down their old structures. It happens all the time, just for kicks. And since the structure burning down is the last thing I want to have happen, I don't begrudge them for being watchful. I make it a habit of setting up the tripod the second I park and position it so that somebody driving by wondering "what in the hell is that guy doing?" can answer their question without bothering me.

Since this long conversation with a landowner, even when the land/house/whatever is not posted, I try to ask someone for permission. This may cost me a half hour or more, but I do it now. When I'm done I will usually stop by again and tell them I'm done and thank them for permission.

Often in these days of corporate farms and ranches the nearest house has no connection to the property but they will usually say 'I know so and so it's OK' and that is good enough for me. If there is a confrontation with a sheriff or guard and you can honestly say you ran it past Mrs. X over there in that house, you're going to be OK. It is hard to prosecute a permission seeker since the "intent" part of the crime is pretty shaky. Knowing the name of the person you talked to helps. (And on a second visit, remembering the name of the people you talked to really helps.) The majority of the time the people I ask are surprised at the courtesy of a request. Most people would just do it. 'Oh nobody minds, if you are just taking pictures," is pretty much the stock answer. I have NEVER been refused when I ask nicely, and I always ask nicely. I park on the highway and walk up the driveway and knock, which I think is the respectful, non-threatening way to do it. (As opposed to driving an SUV into their yard in a cloud of dust.) I often learn interesting information about the land or the house or whatever from people I talk to. (Tell them what kind of subjects you are looking for and get travel tips, they know the area better than you ever will.) If some day somebody tells me "no," then that means "no." It's their land and their right to refuse.

A couple times people have asked surprisingly detailed questions about who I am and what I will use the photos for, but I have no problem with that and I give them honest answers. I figure they have had a bad experience in the past that has put them on their guard. If there is nobody around suitable for permission seeking I take the picture. If there is nobody around and nobody to ask and it isn't posted then nobody is going to care.

I do find I do better work when I'm not worried about somebody confronting me over my presence on the land. This is another good reason to ask. As to sides of highways, or other situations where your authority to stop and photograph is a bit murkier, the Crown Graphic certainly comes in handy and I usually take it along with a tripod camera. I'm gone in less than 60 seconds and I have my picture.

All of the above being said, I have little patience with private security officers, especially the unarmed ones. When they tell me I can't do something I obviously have every right to do, I don't back down. I have a number of techniques for dealing with them that work for me. "So you really don't know who I am, do you?" (This one is delivered with just a hint of amusement.) This one puzzles them, usually for long enough to finish what I'm doing. Might I be connected with their company? The client? Am I a famous person that they would recognize if they weren't generally so clueless? You can see the wheels turning if you look, which I usually don't do. If I look it gives them the impression that I'm interested. I ask them to call the sheriff or police if they want to (the thing they are often threatening, and the last thing they expect me to request) then add "I can use the money." When they tell me they will take down my license I go get the registration and VIN number for them and ask them to write those down too. Sometimes I write their license number down in my book. They hate that. I sometimes ask: "What part of 'observe and report' didn't you understand?" This is a phrase drummed into their heads during training. 'Why does the guy with the tripod know that?' they wonder. 'If he does, it means he knows I'm not supposed to do anything physical.') They generally back down. Again, the Crown Graphic gets me on my way pretty quickly.