RH Analyser Pro......need one?

[Rob_5419]

Arrgh.

My brain is full.

I've got to re-read everything again and start trying to understand the differences between an Analyser Pro vs Zonemaster II+Stop Timer combination.

[Andrew_4548]

...and if you decide you want to go the Analyser route, there could be one available if I decide to go the other way... Postage could be almost sensible as I'm in the UK as well.

[Rob_5419]

Hi Andrew,

I was thinking about the Analyser Pro - well thinking over the past few years, wondering why on earth anyone should want something that any timer can achieve - I didn't even think of the Zone Master II and f stop option.

Does that mean that the analyser pro cannot do F stop timing?

I have a Gralab series timer which I'm happy with.

PS - why are you selling the Analyser Pro - split grade printing? In a way, the ZMII and Fstoptimer combination seems a lot more expensive...

Thanks,

Rob

[Andrew_4548]

Hi Rob,

The Analyser is an f-stop timer but with the added benefit of the tonal display so you can visualise the tones on the print and adjust the exposure and contrast if necessary to achieve the result you want. With the probe, you meter highlights and shadows where you want to keep detail (effectively Zone VIII & II) and it sorts out the contrast filtration and exposure to give you them. You can use the probe to place other readings on the print to get a fuller picture. It can also be used for doing portraiture where you might want high- and/or low-key pictures where the tones are shunted up or down the scale respectively. You can burn in areas at different grades and it'll do all the calculations for you.

I was considering moving to the ZMII and Stopclock Pro as I miss the chance to do split grading - I used to get some nice results with it back in the 'bad' old days of test strips and some of the pictures I take with a large contrast range benefit from the technique. There are a a couple of other interesting features I wouldn't mind checking out as well - paper dry-down compensation etc.

Unfortunately, it does look to be expensive for both so I thought that if you were interested in a low use / as new Analyser, it might be an opportunity for both of us. I might give Richard a ring at RH and ask him a few question before I take the plunge...

Andrew

[Rob_5419]

Hi Andrew,

The more I think about it, the more bewildering it seems.

How can I use a visual grey scale to compare the tones with a red-light on? If I have the red light off, then I can imagine all sorts of fumblings going on to find the right switches and things. My baseboard is also white, however my easel is black, which makes it trickier...

In some ways, I think the idea of a probe (like a Sinar exposure meter probe) is more intuitive to me than trying to guess the zone of the tones in attenuated lighting.

Unfortunately, it does look to be expensive for both so I thought that if you were interested in a low use / as new Analyser, it might be an opportunity for both of us. I might give Richard a ring at RH and ask him a few question before I take the plunge..
I've just been reading the spec.

Yes - I was interested - and then you went and mentioned the ZMII+F.Timer! Maybe Richard would do a discount for two?

The dry-down compensation is important to me since I use fibre paper exclusively. Split-grade printing isn't something that I've gotten into - I'm still on graded papers.

Btw - Is the ZMII+F.Timer able to interface with a Devere Colour Head? I use cold cathode printing mostly but I am wondering about getting a set-up with one of either the Analyser or the ZMII+F.Timer now. Got a few weeks to decide before the prices at RH Designs rise. I guess I just won't go on holiday in August and that'll cover the extra cost.

[Andrew_4548]

Hi Rob,

To clear up a few points

All the measurements are taken with the safelight off and without a contrast filter in place, the lens being set at the working aperture. You soon find out that the probe is sensitive as leaving a safelight on (even at the other end of the room as I have one above the dishes) will really throw the readings and give you exceedingly short exposure times.

If you have it wired as per the instructions, your safelight turns off as the enlarger light comes on for both focusing and exposure so there's no "cross-contamination."

For seeing things in the dark, the unit has small lights on each button so you know where they are. You get used to them quickly and your eyes adjust to the darkness. Most of the adjustments are made with the safelight switched on anyway.

You could have a sky blue baseboard with pink dots on for all the analyser cares! The probe measures the light falling on it from above - from the lens. The baseboard colour is only so you can focus the image. The probe has a uniform colour to it's top surface so you can place the cross-hairs fairly accurately on a tone.

I can't help on colour heads apart from the fact that if you're using MG paper you've to create the filtration from the three colour wheels etc. If you're still using graded papers then I guess you'd make the measurements and force the analyser to work on one grade only - e.g. grade 2, 3 etc. The beauty of them is that with MG, it will tell you which grade to use to get the tonal separation etc you desire. I'd have thought you were losing a big chunk of the functionality by being on graded papers as you've no contrast control (other than changing paper) / burning in at other grades, split grading etc.

There is an RH version for cold cathode heads but I don't have any experience of them - I have an old DeVere 54 model with a separate CC head but I normally use the condenser head. You'd have to look at the info on Richard's site or get in touch for more details. I know that from conversations with Odyssey Sales, CC heads are only much good for graded papers these days unless you have a modern twin-tube version which can vary the contrast on MG papers.

Any info on the price changes at RH? Being a tight Yorkshireman, we like to know of these heinous price rises to plan accordingly...

[Rob_5419]

Thanks Andrew - that makes much more sense now!

If you have it wired as per the instructions, your safelight turns off as the enlarger light comes on for both focusing and exposure so there's no "cross-contamination."

Oops. I was thinking about the darkroom safelamp - not the enlarger switching safelamp...

You could have a sky blue baseboard with pink dots on for all the analyser cares! The probe measures the light falling on it from above - from the lens. The baseboard colour is only so you can focus the image. The probe has a uniform colour to it's top surface so you can place the cross-hairs fairly accurately on a tone.

Is the probe identical in the ZMII+F.Timer set up? I'd like a funky paisley psychedelic baseboard actually. At the minute my baseboard has a few (hundred) coffee mug stains which shows I take my work very seriously! But there are a few stains where the coffee has spilled over too...

I'd have thought you were losing a big chunk of the functionality by being on graded papers as you've no contrast control (other than changing paper) / burning in at other grades, split grading etc.

That's certainly what everyone (used) to tell me. Until they see my prints. It's a bit like the digital vs film scenario - most lay people assume that quality imaging is done on digital and betray their blindness when they find out otherwise.

Don't forget that graded papers have been around for decades more than multi-grade papers. I remember multi-grade papers coming in around early 1990's. There's a richness to graded papers which isn't evident in multigrades. I find this is true for Oriental Seagull FB papers vs MG papers as well as Agfa IIIFBs. Ilford Multigrade is fine but clearly I'm not working it as well as other printers, which is one reason why more splitgrade printing is exciting (it may very well be the only paper I have left by the end of next year ;( )

There is an RH version for cold cathode heads but I don't have any experience of them - I have an old DeVere 54 model with a separate CC head but I normally use the condenser head. You'd have to look at the info on Richard's site or get in touch for more details. I know that from conversations with Odyssey Sales, CC heads are only much good for graded papers these days unless you have a modern twin-tube version which can vary the contrast on MG papers.

Uh oh. That means I need to set up an analyser pro or ZMIIF.Timer for both colour and CC heads, as well as my smaller 6x6cm Meopta enlarger??

RH Designs have announced on their website that their costings are going to be up by 5% from August onwards. It's perfect timing to fret (people like me) who've been dithering for years, and then get pushed, just as the summer holidays (and lull in business) kicks in. It's not a huge amount, but if the British weather is like today, I won't mind not going abroad with all the terrorist paraphenalia at airports to contend with. Instead I'll take a 1 month holiday in my darkroom

[TimRoscoe]

I am going to throw a wrench in the works here. I purchased both an analyzer and a stop clock a couple of years ago. They both work as they have been described here: very reliable and useful. Although, as was mentioned above, the constant need for calibrating the analyzer to suit papers and chemistry, is tedious at best, no matter how slick you get at it. It may sound odd, but I have actually found that the stop clock pro, by itself, is so useful that there is no need for the analyzer.
I eventually realized that if there were two guys starting a printing session at exactly the same time with the same negative, and one used the analyzer, and the other just made test strips with the stop clock, then, the guy with the test strips would finish first. BTW, all of my priniting is split grade.
I think that the thing that makes the biggest difference is the constant density change for every step on the test strip with the stop clock. This means that with very brief "getting-used-to" time, you will soon be producing a test strip that has too "little at one end, and too much at the other". And that is all you need.
I sold the analyzer and work with the stop clock alone, and I never need more than two test strips ( one for low contrast, and one for high contrast), well... almost never...
Anyway that is my two cents worth, in practise, the timer is enough by itself.

Tim R

[Rob_5419]

Thanks Tim. Now my brain is really full.

I think your post echoes all the worries about calibration that I have, before owning either.

Here's a list of the papers I've been printing on recently:

Oriental Seagull Fibre-based Graded Papers II-IV
Agfa Classic FB Graded IV
Agfa Classic FB Multigrade
Kentmere Art Document Paper
Kentmere Fine Print FB Paper
Ilford Multigrade IV FB Paper
Ilford Warmtone MG IV FB Paper
Konica Lith paper (running out actually)


And Print Developers:

Agfa Neutol
Fotospeed Warmtone
Paterson Acugrade

Am I going to have a nightmare time with an analyser/ZMII/F.Timer?

I've not changed any of the above papers (exc. inclusion of multigrade papers) over the past 20 years...

In some way, I think the F. Timer makes sense - I can see myself using that more often. Although it was an analyser that I was saving up for

[Andrew_4548]

At least you're using 8 papers and there are 8 calibration slots

I think there's a table somewhere of all the calibration figures for different papers - it's not exhaustive but you might already have the base data for quite a few papers - Ilford MG is PAP1 calibration etc. These figures would certainly get you decent prints initially and you could do your own calibrations later on if you felt the need to fine tune the contrast etc.

I've not done any calibration in the time I've had the Analyser as I've used the nominally standard papers but now I've switched to the Fotospeed, I've wondered whether the grades are as "equally spaced" and may need a slight tweak.

For the differing enlargers, would a Stopclock Vario cover the light intensity variations as they are supposed to compensate for the light level? They wouldn't compensate for the contrast levels as this would need to be a calibration job. You could always get a unit for each enlarger...

When I mentioned about losing functionailty, I thought you were only using graded papers - not the MG versions you have in your list. Certainly, as papers have been around for a long time and your skill level can possibly bring out a lot in a picture, you probably will get better pictures than the average bloke... I think the RH site mentions something that the Analyser is good for good prints fairly quickly but Fine Art printers may find more in the Stopclock (with or without ZMII) to squeeze the last drop out of the negative.

After I mentioned about the prices, I saw the changes on the website - time to concentrate the mind / polish the shotgun for the moths in the wallet?