handmade digital prints

[C.A]

Handmade digital prints, what a load of rubbish. It takes great skill to produce prints in a darkroom, hardly the same sitting there with a cup of tea while a few buttons are pressed. A traditional print has to be right first time, it isn't like you can save and delete mistakes. Just over a year ago I went to buy some Lith developer to produce some high contrast prints, when the sale person said you don't need to do that anymore you can get the same effect in Photoshop. At the end of the day a digital print is a digital print, isn't like you could do a platinum, lith or gold toned print on a computer.

[David Luttmann]

"Handmade digital prints, what a load of rubbish. It takes great skill to produce prints in a darkroom, hardly the same sitting there with a cup of tea while a few buttons are pressed."

What an ignorant statement. "Just press a few buttons..." If that is what you think working on digital output is, then you have a great deal to learn my friend.....and I would suggest you go learn it before you blather on with nonsense like that!

[Tom Westbrook]

> It takes great skill to produce prints in a darkroom, hardly the same sitting there with a cup of tea while a few buttons are pressed.

While I'm not a huge fan of digital printing (B&W still doesn't look that good to me), I have tried to produce as good prints as I can on the small digital printer I have, and can say it does require skill and knowledge to produce good work. You do have to push the correct buttons, after all.

[C.A]

David Luttmann, here he goes again defending digital, no wonder film is disappearing.

[David Luttmann]

C. Alex,

I'm not "defending digital." I'm challenging an ignorant statement.

But please, enlighten us. Obviously digital workshops put on by people like Charles Cramer and George Dewolfe must be unnecessary.....just tell us which button to press on the keyboard, C.Alex. When I set up layer masks to selectively adjust different areas on a scan for density, sharpness, tonality, and selective toning, I must be going through way too much work because you know which button to select on the keyboard to do it all in one step. Once again, share it with us C. Alex. Which buttons are they?

C.Alex, if all it were was "pressing a few buttons," then everybody would be turning out high quality B&W work from their computers. The fact that you try and justify such an ignorant statement by trying to change the topic to a "defense of digital," proves beyond a doubt that you do have a little bit to learn.

Maybe I'll go back to the darkroom....afterall, that's just waving a few dodging and burning tools around and chucking paper in a tray......isn't it?

[Jorge Gasteazoro]

C'mon Dave! This is exactly the reason why there is such antagonism sometimes between those who do digital work and those who do traditional work. I will use paddy's example, yes some parts in a Ferrari are made by CNC, but the car is still hand made. Not like a Chevrolet.

Pretending that an ink jet print is a "hand made" print is really just one more way to try and make believe and IMO and insult to the intelligence of those of us who read this forum.

If your prints are good, what do you care if they are hand made or machine made?

On a side note, if the LF forum wants to have less flame wars and is unable to provide a "soap box" then I say this kind of posts should not be allowed. Nothing is learned from them, and they are the kind of posts that spiral into a shit fest as this one seems to be going.

[David Luttmann]

Agreed Jorge,

However, stating that digital output is "just pushing a few buttons" and requires no skill is hardly accurate. You'll notice that it is normally film (and I am a film user as well by the way) users trying to suggest that getting good quality output from digital requires no skill and just requires the push of a button. I think most of us would agree that it takes a great deal of skill and effort in both conventional and digital printing to get good output. For C.Alex to suggest otherwise is truly the source of any antagonism here.

By the way, where have you been lately? I took a break away and went into the bush along the coast of Vancouver Island for some imaging. Horrible weather, but who needs to stay dry for 4 days?

[tim atherton]

"You press the button -- we do the rest" - 1888 - Kodak/George Eastman

[Jorge Gasteazoro]

However, stating that digital output is "just pushing a few buttons" and requires no skill is hardly accurate.

Yes, the problem is that both camps start making generalizations and exaggerations out of a desire to win. As I posted in another forum, craft in the darkroom is different than craft in the computer. IMO the original "insult" as it were is the initial post pretending that ink jet prints are hand made.

First, who cares? Second, paddy in another thread accused me of giving explanations and pretending one of my prints was good just because it was "hard" to make, well, the same applies to post production work in a computer. Is the print hand made because someone sat in front of a computer 40 hours trying to control each and every pixel?.....Not IMO...yes, it might be difficult, but does not make it "hand made".

As to where I have been, I was told by the moderators that if I could not "behave" they would rather I do not participate in the forum, so I am limiting my participation here.

BTW, there is not such thing as bad weather for photography..... :-)

[David Luttmann]

Tim,

A warning next time please.....coffee thru the nose is genuinely unpleasant! ;-)