Flame Wars and Civility

[steve simmons]

I have often wondered, outloud a few times, whether or not these bullies really want a broader particiaption in a forum like this. To some extent this forum has been taken over by proponents of certain practices and they can be quite hostile to those who might take a more casual approach to life and photography. When I challenged the BTZS approach a couple of weeks ago I came away thinking I had taken on a cult. I shared this thought with a couple of friends who listen in but will not participate and they agreed. They will not participate because of the flames that are spit out much too often. These are very knowledgeable people who could provide a lot of info to people on this forum but they don't need/want the aggrivation of the way some people behave here. I have tried to point this out to some but they have ignored such information. It might be worth an experiment to see if these people are banned for awhile if the number of people participating increases.

I think APUG has done well to take a heavier hand in moderating their forum. Any forum is not a street corner and it is quite permissable to 'censor' if that is the word you want to use, posts which do nothing but vent personal animosities from long ago fights. They are over and done, either move on or stop posting. After the fights a couple of weeks ago it was said that name calling would expose the poster to banishment. Lets carry out that promise.

I will be careful in the future and take the attitude I am a guest in someone else's house and looking at them face to face before I say anything.

steve simmons

[Frank Petronio]

Sean at APUG is a good guy but he can be a bit quick to ban. Which might be why the APUG LF forum isn't as popular as this one.

[Ole Tjugen]

Banning is never done lightly, and has to be "earned" with unusual diligence.

Sean alone is not the one who does the banning, so don't blame him. There's five of us moderators in the main forum, and three more for the subforums.

APUG is about film photography in general, and LF is only a part of it. This forum is about LF in general, and film photography is a part of it. Also this forum was well established before APUG was conceived, and I don't think anyone has ever hoped to "replace" it as the best LF resource on the net.

[Wayne]

I disagree with Frank. think APUG is too conservative in banning people, just like this site. There are certain people who are regularly abusive and yet there they are.

Wayne

[bglick]

These are very knowledgeable people who could provide a lot of info to people on this forum but they don't need/want the aggrivation of the way some people behave here.

I agree Steve, but in the past you were part of that crowd, but remain in denial.

> To some extent this forum has been taken over by proponents of certain practices and they can be quite hostile to those who might take a more casual approach to life and photography.

This has been addressed many times... I think this is a very poor representation of at least the posts I was involved in the past month. The hostility always came as a result of you attacking others who corrected your often vague and poorly presented data. Lets be fair here, they weren't part of a cult, unless it's the cult of, "trying to help others with fundamentaly sound information." If so, give me some of that spiked Kool Aid, as I too am a member of that cult :-)

> After the fights a couple of weeks ago it was said that name calling would expose the poster to banishment.

And equally, IMO, anyone who instigates these problems should also lead to bannishment. I have NEVER followed your methodology of singling out the one who punched the hardest, vs. the one who throws the first punch. Try looking at both sides of the equation.



> I will be careful in the future and take the attitude I am a guest in someone else's house and looking at them face to face before I say anything.

Well, I guess this is the closest you will ever come to admitting some fault, regardless of how many unbiased parties mentioned the instigation from you. So be it, I give you credit for the attempt Steve.

Steve, I have nothing against you....but it bothers me, you still present distorted versions of history. You talk about just forgetting stuff, yet somehow you're the one that keeps bringing up old flames and cleverly defending your position. Hopefully this will be a new begining for everyone, after the LF version of WWIII....or maybe Wrestlemania?

[Jerry Fusselman]

I am really tired of the posting style

You "generalized personal insult #1". You "generalized personal insult #2". You "generalized personal insult #3". You "generalized personal insult #4". ...

[John Boeckeler]

Mr. Fusselman: my thoughts exactly.

[Michael Jones]

Gee Whiz. People have problems being civil in a thread on civility? That seems pretty gloomy for the future.

As someone else mentioned, the guidelines are posted and, as in most facets of life, if one cannot play by the rules, you don’t get to play. Of course, the corollary is that if the guidelines are not enforced, there are no rules and you can do as you please. No thanks. Life is too short and there are too many other sources of information.

[steve simmons]

To WG

Cool. I make a post offering to make a fresh start and then you begin attacking me. We could have moved on fresh but the past seems more interesting to you.

The negative posts from Jorge and Butzi are , to a large exent based on personal issues with me. They just have not been clean about their personal issues.

Now, can we move forward.?

steve simmons

[bglick]

Steve, fresh start? I congratulated you on your attempt of such, please re read my post. Please do not confuse my accurate reflection of history as an attack. Jorge and Butzi have NOTHING to do with my post.

Jerry, if your post is regarding mine, I do not understand it, otherwise I would be gald to comment.