Another Billy the Kid plate?

**civich** · 7-Oct-2015, 06:29

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Fascinating thread. This and the PBS documentary provide a new perspective on the "Kid". What a convoluted story the Lincoln County wars and it's characters must have been - thuggery was fluid and it occurred on both sides of the law. I'll have to do some research - any reading recommendations?
Oh - and I nominate Benedict Cumberbatch to play the Kid in the new movie.....

**Stepmccarty** · 7-Oct-2015, 17:53

Thank you. I figured if I put in enough C's and Q's that people would figure out who I meant.

**Stepmccarty** · 7-Oct-2015, 18:03

Considering books about BTK. Walter Nobel Burns wrote the first one, "The Saga of Billy the Kid". Written, as I recall in 1926. The interesting thing about his book is that Burns interviewed many people who knew the kid, including Sallie Chisum, who died in 1934. So the Burns book rings true. It was that book that made Billy famous. Lily Casey who knew the kid and wasn't a fan of his, hired two ghost writers to put together a book about her days in Lincoln. Sallie Chisum gave Lily her notes that she had gather when she was thinking about writing a book. Lily's "papers" became her book, edited by Eve Ball entitled "My Girlhood Among the Outlaws". It is an interesting read. Here and there it rings true, but lilies memory was flawed. My favorite book is Robert Utley's "The Short and Violent Life of Billy the Kid. Written in 1984 the book has the advantage of research and a great writer. Lastly Fred Nolan's books are invaluable. He is an Englishmen who somehow became enamored by the Kid's story. After you get started you will find many other books. I think I have read them all. What do you want to know?

**Stepmccarty** · 7-Oct-2015, 18:17

Here is a little tintype that I passed over several times when searching in the shelves and bins in the store where I found Sallie Chisum's collection. I decided to buy it because it looked about right and the price was okay ...$4.50. After some searching and looking I figured out that the man is Robert "Bob" Olinger. In Lily Casey's book "My Girlhood Among the Outlaws" she reports that she was engaged to marry Bob Olinger, but darn it all, the kid killed him before the blessed event could take place. Lily was 16 years old at the time. Is the lady Lily? I am going to post a well know picture of Mr. Olinger. You can decide if the two pictures are of the same fella. I am convinced they are.

**Stepmccarty** · 7-Oct-2015, 18:20

Here is a copy of a well known and often published photo of Bob Olinger. You can match this photo with mine that I posted above. Notice how he liked to sit with his ankles crossed. Billy killed this man, shooting him from an upstairs window in the Lincoln County Courthouse.

BTW: look at the watch fob....I think they are the same item.

**ImSoNegative** · 7-Oct-2015, 19:37

Im not sure if they are the same man, the man in you tintype has a more rounded jaw, the other fellow's seems a bit more squared, could be the way the head is tilted in the tintype though,

**Andrew O'Neill** · 7-Oct-2015, 21:05

Nose and ear are not the same. The fobs are different, too. Really enjoying this thread, though.

**Stepmccarty** · 7-Oct-2015, 21:09

The manner in which the guy planted himself in his chair makes me think they are the same fellow. I also believe that the fact that he has crossed his ankles is an indicator that they two men are the same gent. Sallie Chisum collected my photograph. Sure she would collect a pic of Olinger. She would have known him. Funny thing is that all of the participants in the Lincoln County War knew one another and some were probably friends from time to time.

**Stepmccarty** · 7-Oct-2015, 21:16

Here is Lily Casey's picture. I can't tell if she is the same lady in the photo of the two people...who I think are Lily and Olinger. Now I will grant you that this picture of Lily does not look a lot like the lady in the photo of the duo, but ancient tintypes are like that. This is Lily Casey Klasner and Sallie owned it.

**Stepmccarty** · 7-Oct-2015, 21:21

Here is a wonderful tintype. You can tell, I think, that it is a 1/8th plate. The man is Juan Patron and his wife Beatriz. The young women is probably one of his two daughters. Juan was a good friend of the Kid. Patron was the leader of the Hispanic community in Lincoln. Billy stayed in Patron's back room for a few weeks when the kid was waiting for his pardon...it never came.