Conundrum: should I wait for the Layton ?

[Scott Knowles]

I've been waiting for the Layton L-45A to be produced, and for the last 6 months or so I've heard it's almost there (not counting the time while it's in development and production). Since I still have my deposit there for one and don't plan to change that decision, I have everything else to start learning and working in large format photography. The conundrum is that I only have the money for the one set aside. So the question is that is there another field camera that will do almost as much without breaking the bank, meaning a Linhof?

I understand the logic to buy a "beginner's" 4x5 (<$1,000), and I know many still use theirs for many years, it wasn't my interest to go that route just to get started and discover its limitations. I'm not criticizing that route, it's just not my interest, which was to buy one camera to do 95+% of my needs. The irony is that researching other field cameras I end up spending almost as much for only most of the same features and capabilities, such as Toyo, etc. So, am I missing anything to look at?

Otherwise I'll sit and wait for the note of where to send the check for the really big box from John Layton. Thanks and have a good holiday season.

[Jack Flesher]

So let me get this straight... You have all the gear you need to shoot except a camera???

My first question is, do you want to shoot or wait? Second question is, what if your wait for the Layton never materializes into a camera?

In the end, learning to shoot LF is an iterative process; it takes time spent behind the camera -- any camera -- learning what the movements do, when and how to implement them, and then making the inevitable mistakes enough times that you learn how not to make them. Had you been shooting with any LF camera for all the time you've spent waiting for your Layton, you'd probably have pushed your way through most of the initial learning hurdles and already have a few keeper images for your LF portfolio...

I'll also go on record saying this: There is no such thing as the ultimate, do-it-all view camera -- it simply doesn't exist.

I'll add that I have seen and played with one of the Layton prototypes. Yes, it is a nice camera with some nice design features, but no way it is anything even approaching the holy grail of all view cameras. IMO you can do as well or even better with an Ebony, Arca, Linhof or Toyo. No way I personally would give up my Arca for a Layton, and most likely would not even bother opting for one if I owned an Ebony...

My advice is to get a camera, any camera, and just start shooting...

[Don Hutton]

I've been waiting for the Layton L-45A to be produced, and for the last 6 months or so I've heard it's almost there (not counting the time while it's in development and production). Since I still have my deposit there for one and don't plan to change that decision, I have everything else to start learning and working in large format photography. The conundrum is that I only have the money for the one set aside. So the question is that is there another field camera that will do almost as much without breaking the bank, meaning a Linhof?

I understand the logic to buy a "beginner's" 4x5 (<$1,000), and I know many still use theirs for many years, it wasn't my interest to go that route just to get started and discover its limitations. I'm not criticizing that route, it's just not my interest, which was to buy one camera to do 95+% of my needs. The irony is that researching other field cameras I end up spending almost as much for only most of the same features and capabilities, such as Toyo, etc. So, am I missing anything to look at?

Otherwise I'll sit and wait for the note of where to send the check for the really big box from John Layton. Thanks and have a good holiday season.

My own experience has been that one's preferences in a camera change over time. Things which you may think are essential now, may well change over time and with experience. Waiting for golden bullets seems way less sensible to me than chasing them - I'd get something else and form some real opinions about what you need based on what you have and use - then if the Layton is still what you want when (if?) it finally happens, you can sell one and buy the Layton.

[John Kasaian]

IMHO, Jack Flesher is spot on. Find a low priced Crown Graphic or Calumet metal mono and start the learning process, that way, when your Layton does arrive you'll be able to get down to business (having already 'cycled through' many of the challenges) plus you'll have some very good, maybe even great LF images to get your creative motor purring. Besides, it'll be a lot more fun than waiting for a box to arrive.

[Ole Tjugen]

I'll also go on record saying this: There is no such thing as the ultimate, do-it-all view camera -- it simply doesn't exist.

There is, but it's impossible to get hold of. Or at least it takes a long, long time and quite a lot of luck.

In the meantime, just about any LF camera will do. If I didn't already have the ultimate, I would have bought an Argentum Explorator I. As it is, I'm thinking hard about an 8x10" Argentum xl...

[Colin Robertson]

Really, get a camera and shoot. When the Layton shows up, sell the other. Even if you lose a few bucks you gain plenty of other things to make up for it. I always thought I was quite savvy in the darkroom, but goin LF was humbling. First comes film handling- loading holders and processing film without scrathing it. Then getting EI and dev times to suit my new diffusion enlarger. For the first few weeks I produced crap. I only got on top of things by putting away my MF gear and shooting only LF for a while. Meditation and reading don't make you skilled, only shooting does.

[Ron Marshall]

I agonized over the purchase of my first camera, but after shooting for a month I laughed at my angst. Every camera design entails a functional compromise of some sort.

It is so easy to buy and sell used LF equipment that one can sample a few cameras over their shooting career, and trade with little or no loss.

You may get the Layton and find you don't like it. Try something in the interum. The main thing is to get shooting and get a feel for it.

[Jack Flesher]

Yes, our needs and first impressions do change once we actually use the gear... I remember the first 4x5 I bought. I agonized over specs too -- bellows draw, movements and lensboard size, and finally ended up with a Linhof Technikardan. Great camera, but now several years and a dozen different cameras later, it is probably one of the last cameras I would choose. I've owned, used and loved the cheapest wooden folders through the most expensive machined technoperfection monorails and made great (and crappy) images with all of them. Bottom line for me now is the camera itself simply doesn't matter that much -- it just needs to be light-tight, adjust smoothly and lock-down reliably.

[Brian Ellis]

I'm with Jack. I spent months reading everything I could about LF cameras, pored over spec sheets, read reviews, posted questions, and finally ended up with a Technikardan. I owned it for about six months and sold it. I've owned four 4x5s since then (12 years ago) and have stayed with my last one (a Master Technika) for about 4years with no plans to change.

It's just very very hard to buy a LF camera based on reading about them, especially without ever having used one before. The only critical things IMHO for general purpose photography are front tilt, swing and rise and back tilt and swing. The other movements are either unnecessary for general purpose photography or can be duplicated with the basic movements. Then the camera must have a bellows long enough to use your longest lens. That's about it. Assuming everything functions properly it becomes a matter of how the camera handles, how it feels, how convenient it is to use, what little things bother you, what things do you really like, all the sort of stuff you don't get from reading about cameras.

So I think it's a mistake to do nothing until Layton gets a camera to you. Buy something now. Whatever you buy can probably be sold for about what you paid for it if and when the Layton arrives and in the meantime you'll be making photographs and learning.

[Gordon Moat]

I think he should get a wood field camera within his price range. That way when he gets the Layton metal field camera, he might find a noticeable difference in rigidity.

A quick glance at the Layton website indicates a sturdy and clean looking design. It would seem to be a nice choice for those who can afford one. I cannot imagine too many being made.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio