Favourite/ Most Successful Metering Techniques - to Zone or not to Zone?

[jamesw]

Thanks everyone, this really is very helpful and quite fascinating!

Leonard; I mainly like to shoot landscapes, yes, and mainly in colour transparency (although I could be convinced to use colour negative film if there were distinct advantages). I have shot B/W in the past, but to be honest once I went over to digital darkroom, I started only shooting colour (this is on 35mm) and then I could decide afterwards if a shot would be better in colour or B/W. One of the things I'm looking forward to in LF is individual sheet processing, so I can start shooting B/W film again and get into processing for zone system too. Realistically though I'll probably shoot 85% colour.

Bruce, you're right; whichever system I finally use, there's no substitute for experience! I plan to buy a lightmeter and practice with my DSLR in between using sheet film (it costs nothing when I make mistakes, and it will allow me to keep practicing with as many exposures neccessary for me to learn; also I can just go shoot anything with it - my garden - just to learn exposure, without risking missing a really nice shot).

Barry, how would you 'place' an exposure reading on a scale using the '758? Or would you just look at the reading for, say, a highlight where you want to retain some detail and then 'manually' use exposure compensation on the meter to place it in zone vii - so exposure comp of +2? Just trying to get an idea of how zones would work on that type of meter without having access to one...

Drew, I don't understand - I thought latitude was the range of stops from shadows to highlights a particular film had, or maybe I've used an incorrect term here? What I mean is making sure that the shadows, midtones and highlights will all fit into the dynamic range of whichever film is being used to avoid blowing out highlights, or having no details in the shadows, etc. As I recall, B/W negative film has about 9 stops, colour negative slightly less, and transparency about 5 or 6-ish??

I just came across this:
http://www.shutterbug.com/equipmentr...es/1008kenkos/
Any opinions? Seems like it might offer a good mix of features for me to learn on and use in the field? I like the look of the Shadow/Average/Highlight function - presumably one would use the shadow setting for B/W work and the highlight setting for transparencies, etc?

James

[Ralph Barker]

James, the nice part about using the spot metering aspects of the Zone System (even if you don't do adjustments to development) is that what falls where on the tonal spectrum doesn't need to correspond precisely to reality. You are making the photograph, so you control where the values fall, all based on what you want the photograph (print, really) to look like.

For example, after metering various elements in the scene, decide what you want to be a "middle gray" in the print. That becomes your "Zone V" - what you expose at. Then, consider where the other values in the scene fall in relation to your chosen Zone V. In doing that, you might change your mind about the Zone V elements. If some highlight elements fall beyond the range of the film, you know that you'll either need to adjust development, or sacrifice definition at one end or the other of the tonal range.

Doing some testing under controlled circumstances will help you to get a feel for the dynamic range of the film, as processed "normally" by you or the lab. Including a printed step wedge (Kodak has a nice large one) in the scene will help with that, too. You should see a full range of tones on the step wedge, pretty much corresponding to the original. If the tones on the wedge are compressed, you know that your development is above "normal", so you can make adjustments. In general, however, you can expect to see some detail in about 7 stops in a B&W negative, if your "normal" development is correct.

[edit] Color transparency film will have less dynamic range than B&W negative film. Figure 4 stops, perhaps 5, with good detail. Color negative film will be about the same as B&W negative film, or about 7 stops. That, alone, may be reason enough to switch to color negatives if you're scanning.

[Bruce Watson]

I plan to buy a lightmeter and practice with my DSLR in between using sheet film (it costs nothing when I make mistakes, and it will allow me to keep practicing with as many exposures neccessary for me to learn; also I can just go shoot anything with it - my garden - just to learn exposure, without risking missing a really nice shot).

As long as you remember that a DSLR is "tranny like" and you expose for the highlights. Sure, why not?

But this won't teach you how to meter for and expose for the shadows if you plan on using negative film.

There are a number of reasons to put down the DSLR though. All of them relate to learning the craft of LF photography so that you can as much as possible make it an automatic background process. This includes using the view camera, yes. But it also includes learning the film processing, particularly if you are doing your own B&W processing.

My advice is to put down the other cameras and just use the view camera for a while. It's not that different from learning a new language -- the quickest way, the way with the best retention, is immersion. Don't be afraid to make mistakes and learn from them. Immerse yourself in the LF world for a while. Come on in, the water's fine!

[Chuck P.]

James, I use a analog Pentax V spot meter and use the ZS technique for exposure and development. I placed a zone scale on the meter just as in the text and it works wonderfully for evaluating the subject brightness range (SBR).

To everyone who's using incident, or a mixture of incident and spot metering; how are you checking that the exposure falls within the latitude of the film you're using

It is checked by evaluating the SBR; it's even more informative and you have more control if you know how the film responds to your processing and equipment because you have done the testing. But latitude is a function of the SBR of the scene coupled with the characteristics of the film you are using and is better determined with a spot meter, IMO. However, users of BTZS (Beyond the Zone System) technique average the highlights and shadows with a wide field averaging handheld meter, I think. Anyway, high contrast scenes use much more of the gray scale and so allows very little, if any, latitude in exposure variation. Low contrast scenes afford the greatest latitude in exposure variation.

my fear with using Zone metering is lack of experience in spotting which tones in a scene should be placed on which zone

In short, maybe , essentially what you said is that you have a problem with evaluating the SBR of the scene or subject matter. I find that this is most easily done with the spot meter because: 1) you are able to measure individual reflective values, 2) determine which of those values are most important at both ends of the gray scale, 3) "place" the important value on the scale where you want it (most always this will be a shadow value of some sort but not always), 3) know where on the scale the important high value will "fall", and 4) plan the development of the negative that ensures the "high value" density is developed no further than what it needs so that it is able to be printed on the paper to reveal the texture and detail that you visualized.

That's an awesome amount of control with the aid of a spot meter and of course, with some testing for personal EI and development times.

How much film and missed shots am I going to go through in your experience before I begin to get to grips with the Zone system?

Lots!, but that is the fun of it and how it is learned.

[Brian Ellis]

"The Pentax spot is probably ideal for Zone use, but is everyone using this for colour work, and is it suitable unless one is quite experienced as to what in the scene should be placed on certain zones?"

Whether your're using color or black and white film, you don't actually decide what in the scene should be placed on certain zones. You can only place one element of the scene on one zone. Once you place that element on a particular zone everything else in the scene just goes along for the ride (i.e. you have no further control over the density of any other element in the scene except the one on which you base your exposure). With negative film the element you normally place is the darkest part of the scene in which you want texture or detail. Typically you place that on Zone III or IV. Most of the time that's all there is to it from an exposure standpoint if you're using negative film and that part of the zone system is as useful with color film as with b&w.

You shouldn't have many early mistakes with any type of reflected light meter, whether it's a spot meter or some other type, if you're using negative film, because that's the type meter you've been using and it's really pretty simple. Slide film is more difficult because it has less latitude for exposure errors.

[Gordon Moat]

I mostly shoot transparency films, which I rate at box speed. Then I use incident readings, only altering by experience when I know slight over or under exposure will give more of a result that I might want. When I do shoot B/W films, like in my rollfilm holder, or in smaller cameras, then I usually rate that at box speed and incident meter as I would with transparency films. My results are extremely consistent.

I know how to use the Zone System, but I largely avoid it. When I found I could get the results I wanted without using the Zone System, then I stopped using it. Others live by this system, and swear by it.

I use a Sekonic L-358 for my incident readings. This meter is quite useful for artificial lighting, allowing calculation of a strobe to ambient ratio. When using flash or strobes, I have found it to be very accurate and consistent.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat Photography

[jamesw]

All very helpful, thank you! It seems as though many people are using slightly different systems and all getting good results. I do think the control and flexibility of the zone system are very appealing and I'll certainly give it a go. It does strike me though that for some exposures an incident reading is probably very accurate and quick; although one could use a grey card with a spot meter if one wanted such a reading in any case!

I think now you've all given me an outline of the different systems, the only way for me to learn much more is to go out and start experimenting (the comment about practice on DSLRs only being applicable to highlight exposure as for transparency is well taken; in fact I intend to use transparency film quite a lot so this may not be a bad thing). Is there a colour negative film which would give a Velvia type richness/saturation though? It seems the wider latitude of colour negative film would be advantageous for landscape work in many ways...

James

[Mark Sawyer]

A few thoughts...

#1 I think the most important thing is to try to call your exposure/development before metering with every image. Before too long, the meter will be a confirmation of what you already know rather than a tool that's smarter than you.

#2 I learned the zone system back in the '80's, and made thousands of negatives. All dull and boring, but I learned my stuff. It wasn't long before I realized that the zone system was just telling me one or two stops more or less, and a little or a lot more developing. And by guessing (see #1), I could call it myself in the same ballpark by just seeing the amount of contrast in the orginal scene. At that point, I stopped doing the calculations, even though I could do them quickly in my head. Actually "doing the numbers" felt like standing at a pool table with a protractor and a calculator. But I don't think I would have learned it as well without going through the system...

#3 The zone system is just a system for getting a pretty good negative in fairly high or low contrast situations. In most situations, you'll get just as good a negative with normal exposure and development.

#4. If you can't call your exposure and development (with or without a meter), you're playing slop pool.

#5 I think learning a good stand development technique helped my negatives as much as the zone system.

[jamesw]

I think learning zone metering with a Pentax spot will be a nice learning curve for me. Can anyone with a Pentax digital spot tell me what kind of battery it takes? I've heard some older spot meters take older type batteries which can be hard to get or have even become obsolete...

When using one of these for colour reversal film as well as B/W, could one, instead of using the normal zone sticker, simply have a dual sticker which would indicate relative latitudes of B/W and colour negative vs slide film, or something?

Cheers,
James

[AFSmithphoto]

If you want to learn spot metering and the zone system, but don't wanna blow exposures too often, get a spot meter and an 18% grey card.

When the card is placed in the same light as your subject, a spot reading from the card should be identical to an incident reading.

Meter the scene with the spot meter as you normally would, and determine what you think the exposure should be. Next, meter of the grey card and see if the two exposures vary. Don't worry if they're off a little bit. This will happen often as there will likely be times that you want subjects to be brighter/darker than a literal representation of the scene. If you're off by more than a few stops though you should re-meter.