New Figure magazine

[domenico Foschi]

John Wood, in Photographic Arts, said

Attempts to deny or go beyond the erotic aspect of the human form tend to spiritualize or intellectualize the act of contemplating the human form. But such attempts are more mind games we humans play in order to feel comfortable in the presence of the human form.

Just because you haven't experienced the human body in a spiritual manner, doesn't mean that approach doesn't exist.

Also, what is wrong with the erotic aspect of experiencing the human body?
Is there a need to attach words like "perv"?
The last time I heard that word was from the mouth of a teenager.

Going back to Jock Sturges, what is wrong with seeing the undeniable beauty of his subjects?
Has he been accused of molestation?

Let's remember that childhood sexual abuse, yes, has to do with sex, but mainly is about power, which is something I do not see in his images, quite the contrary.
Contemplating Beauty in its every form is the drive of the Artist and I am always puzzled by the comments I read sometimes coming from people who follow the same path.

[QT Luong]

> Going back to Jock Sturges, what is wrong with seeing the undeniable beauty of his subjects? Has he been accused of molestation?

Personally, I do not see anything wrong just in the images, however I read there is an autobiographical movie called "Art for teachers of children" made by Jennifer Montgomery, one of his former models that has troubling themes. If I remember well, her mother did accuse him.

[Doug Howk]

Just because you haven't experienced the human body in a spiritual manner, doesn't mean that approach doesn't exist.

I new I was going to miss something when I gave up on religion ;-) I would guess that those who view the human form in a spiritual manner see its beauty as evidence of a creator, which is fine. And those who pursue "Truth" also find beauty in that form. As a non-believer, I'm left with merely appreciating the beauty of the human form, whether erotic or otherwise.

[domenico Foschi]

> Going back to Jock Sturges, what is wrong with seeing the undeniable beauty of his subjects? Has he been accused of molestation?

Personally, I do not see anything wrong just in the images, however I read there is an autobiographical movie called "Art for teachers of children" made by Jennifer Montgomery, one of his former models that has troubling themes. If I remember well, her mother did accuse him.

YEs, It does look there have been some problems.
I wasn't aware of it.
I am planning to get the movie and get a little more informed on Sturges' "modus operandi".

[Robert Brummitt]

Gee-wiz! I wanted thoughts about a magazine and get the Spanish Inquision instead!
This thread has taken a whole different direction. But, that's OK. I'm interested what you all have to share.
I like what was said about Imogen Cunningham's work. I too love hers and think she may have a peg over Edward Weston. I also had heard that EW though so as well. I have to go thru my books to find that quote.
I never thought much of Jock's work. I remember how the FBI came to my lab to discuss with us about Adult themed photography that contained Children. Never saw any.
To add to a list of names. What do you all think of Marcus Allen work? He was a PB photographer about the same time as Mr. Dunas. I thought his Yosemite images interesting.

[Robert Brummitt]

Sorry I met Ken Marcus. My memory sometimes fails me.

[Duane Polcou]

IMHO, Ken Marcus was one of the best practitioners of the "glamour nude" or "centerfold nude" during the era of photographers creating their own signature in-camera diffusion by creating "recipes" of panty hose types fit into circular filter rings. I collect so many of those old magazines as their dated natural light look is almost classic, at least to me.

I had a conversation with him at one of the very first Photo East (now PDN Photo Plus) conventions in NYC. If memory serves he just left Penthouse as he felt Bob Guccione's editorial shift from showing pubic hair to actual genitilia to actual sexual interaction for the sake of competing with Hustler, et al, was not a direction he wanted his photogaphy to parallel.

He then produced a body of work in Yosemite National Park of B/W nudes posed against backdrops of iconic Yosemite features, as well as isolated views utilizing cliffs and rocks. I thought they were stunning; they reminded me of some of the images Lucien Clergue used to produce in quarries, but with much more muscular and curvaceous physiques. Playing the shapes of the human form off of the shapes in the environment. But the Park Service, if I am correct, cancelled a planned show of these prints as they felt uncomfortable with nudity.

The last time I visited his site (admittedly about a year ago) it was a pay-to-join affair pretty heavily into bondage pictures of porn stars, although his image of Jenna Jameson hanging suspended in the air is amazing. I never understood the appeal of images of tying up women, so I found the pictures a little rough for my tastes, but they were exquisitely produced, as he is one of the true old school masters of composition and lighting for nude photography.

[Michael Graves]

...as though they have a loftier agenda other than taking nudie shots...

There's a loftier agenda than that?

[Mark Sawyer]

I will venture that Edward Weston is the most overrated photographer of the artistic nude. Imogen Cunningham was WAY better at it than he was. I do like his peppers though, but he kind of stole the idea from Georgia O'Keefe.

Try Anne Brigman, Imogen Cunningham. Andreas Bitesnich (for someone contemporary), he always becomes disheartened when he is surrounded by photographers who are only there "for the flesh" as he puts it. There are also a few up and coming photographers whose work I like who don't work like that - Bryce Lankard, Ted Preuss, Dave Aharonian... just to name a few. I could actually name a lot of photographers, but that might get you started.

As for politicians - when people continually put such a stigma upon those of us who dare make photographs of nude human beings it becomes harder and harder for us to practice our chosen art form. In the past week I have read news items of photography exhibits being censored by police and a photographer and model being arrested for disorderly conduct for shooting out doors in an area away from the public in the middle of nowhere. I think this type of dialog needs to stop and people in the United States need to grow up.

Anne Brigman and Imogene Cunningham were both a bit "scandalous" in their day, though Imogene's photographs of interracial couples were even more controversial. But perhaps there's hope for the human race if we've grown past that... Bitesnich's work is often rather erotic, and obviously so; I'm surprised you chose him for an example.

I don't argue that all photographs/paintings/drawings of nudes are pornographic, or even meant to have any sexual/erotic content. But I recognize that they will be seen that way. Photography more than any other visual art form (except video), due to its direct connection to reality. That you've encountered a continual stigma that makes it harder to do your work indicates that this is a prevailing perception.
It's not that big a deal; there's been no complaint I'm aware of about nudes posted here, and such photography can certainly have all the wonderful qualities of other subject matter. But one shouldn't decide that they'll pursue such work and never raise an eyebrow...

I'm not arguing that's how it should be, I'm arguing that's how it is.

[Robert Brummitt]

"The last time I visited his site (admittedly about a year ago) it was a pay-to-join affair pretty heavily into bondage pictures of porn stars, although his image of Jenna Jameson hanging suspended in the air is amazing. I never understood the appeal of images of tying up women, so I found the pictures a little rough for my tastes, but they were exquisitely produced, as he is one of the true old school masters of composition and lighting for nude photography.[/QUOTE]

WHoa! I just visited Marcus' website and he sure has gone to the dark side. I guess it pays the bills but I liked his older work better. I remember looking forward to see his name in the Playbill of PB.
I noticed that his website declares he was Ansel's youngest assistant. I wonder if that's true?