Gitzo CF + Manfrotto head

[Cristiano Abreu]

Hi all,
In order to reduce some of the weight I carry into the field (... age is starting to take is toll) from using an aluminum Gitzo serie 2 tripod, as well as to increase stability, I'm considering getting a Gitzo CF. I'll be using it for 4x5".
After the usual research, I'm inclined for the GT3540XLS (mainly because of the minimum and maximum height) in conjunction with a Manfrotto 160 heavy duty head. Yes, I know the head is somewhat heavy, but I've been using a Gitzo G1378M, which isn't light either. However, the base of the latter is too small and suffers from instabilities issues for LF work.
Anyone using the combo GT3540XLS + manfrotto 160?
Pros and Cons?
Thanks.

[mrladewig]

Is a ball head an acceptable solution for you? If so you can trim several pounds from that combination. You can get a ballhead capable of support 60 pounds at a weight of 1.2 pounds or so.

Also in that height range is a G2 series with extra long legs. That would save at least a pound. Not sure exactly how long you need though.

The only cons with what you have listed are weight.

[Cristiano Abreu]

Is a ball head an acceptable solution for you? If so you can trim several pounds from that combination. You can get a ballhead capable of support 60 pounds at a weight of 1.2 pounds or so.

Also in that height range is a G2 series with extra long legs. That would save at least a pound. Not sure exactly how long you need though.

The only cons with what you have listed are weight.

Hi mrladewig. Thanks for responding.
My present setup consists on a Gitzo G2220 Al tripod, which is relatively robust (with the center column retracted) but ain't particularly light (2,35 kg), and a G1378M ball head (1.1 kg). This ball head, even considering it's the biggest in Gitzo's series, has not convinced me fully for LF. It's square QR footprint is too small even for my Mamiya RB67 MF, but essentially what's bothering me most is that I've to tighten the friction and locking knobs considerably to prevent motion for my LF gear. And from what I've been reading, from general consensus, ball heads are not the best option for LF work. That's essentially why I want to change for a pan-tilt or geared head, for heavy duty.
Therefore, I'm considering the CF G3540XLS, w/ 1.97 kg (mainly for its max height without the necessity of extending a center column. I'm 1.80m. But also due to its min height of only 10 cm, since there's no center column) to slightly lower the weight of the ensemble, in order to use a heavy duty head.
For the head I've been considering the low profile G1570M (1.34 kg), which nonetheless doesn't provide QR, and the Manfrotto 160 (2 kg) which is heavier but has a QR system. True, this last setup is heavier (3.97 kg) than my present one (3.45 kg), but I prefer to let my back suffer a little more (I'm not that old...) than compromise on stability. I also foreseen to advance, in a not so distant future, to the larger 8x10''. Therefore, I need a tripod+head combination which will last for long and serve me well in present and future situations. It's a big investment. This is the main reason I want to change from the series 2 to 3, even at a loss in portability.

[Aender Brepsom]

Have you ever considered the Arca Swiss Monoball head? Sturdy as a ballhead can be and very smooth to operate. Mine is at least 7-8 years old and still an excellent tool.
The Really Right Stuff ballhead is probably equally good.

[evan clarke]

Using a ball head is like an octopus having sex with bagpipes. I use mainly an Arca cube on my 3540 (the best tripod ever) I use a 3 way head which is rigid (808RC4). i have one of the 160s but the thing has a long gooseneck which is flexible and does not support the camera as nicely and the 3 way. I have a Bogen universal adapter on the tripod and the universal plates on the heads I use, it can allow quick change between heads and is rigid. it also lets me carry my Cube in my pack...EC

[timparkin]

Using a ball head is like an octopus having sex with bagpipes. I use mainly an Arca cube on my 3540 (the best tripod ever) I use a 3 way head which is rigid (808RC4). i have one of the 160s but the thing has a long gooseneck which is flexible and does not support the camera as nicely and the 3 way. I have a Bogen universal adapter on the tripod and the universal plates on the heads I use, it can allow quick change between heads and is rigid. it also lets me carry my Cube in my pack...EC

Heh... I must like marine porn as I love using my RRS BH55 and 3540XLS (really nice tripod btw - amazing at full height - I've added the spikes which adds another 4 inches - I can't actually open it fully at home as it hits the ceiling...

If you get a ballhead with a tension control that works (and only a few do) then using a ball head is simple enough. I think a pan tilt head with micro adjustments would be nicer in some ways but I like the simplicity one control. I imagine some cameras where the centre of gravity is quite high or off centre could be problematical with a ballhead. My Ebony seems to be well centred and fairly low.. Even when using a long lens, the front and back standards at extension balance roughly (with a 360TED)

I'd like to try an Arca Cube though :-)

Tim

[Cristiano Abreu]

Have you ever considered the Arca Swiss Monoball head? Sturdy as a ballhead can be and very smooth to operate. Mine is at least 7-8 years old and still an excellent tool.
The Really Right Stuff ballhead is probably equally good.

Thanks Aender.
I know that the Arca B1 are among the best, but a tad pricy for me. I'm also more inclined for the pan-tilt, for more precise adjustments.
Unfortunately, I can't seem to find a seller for RRS here in Europe. In the past, before buying the G1378M, I've seriously considered one of RRS's ball heads, but was unable to find a on-line seller this side of the pond. I've had a bad experience before with customs, so ordering from the States is almost out of question.

[Cristiano Abreu]

Using a ball head is like an octopus having sex with bagpipes. I use mainly an Arca cube on my 3540 (the best tripod ever) I use a 3 way head which is rigid (808RC4). i have one of the 160s but the thing has a long gooseneck which is flexible and does not support the camera as nicely and the 3 way. I have a Bogen universal adapter on the tripod and the universal plates on the heads I use, it can allow quick change between heads and is rigid. it also lets me carry my Cube in my pack...EC

Thanks for the input Evan.
Yea, the Arca Cube will be awesome. However, it's way beyond my price tag.
So you say that the 808RC4 will be a better option than the 160, because of the long goose neck. Nice to know about this, since the 808RC4 is cheaper than the 160
What do you think of the low profile G1570M? is there a way to adapt a QR from Manfrotto for ex.?

[Cristiano Abreu]

Heh... I must like marine porn as I love using my RRS BH55 and 3540XLS (really nice tripod btw - amazing at full height - I've added the spikes which adds another 4 inches - I can't actually open it fully at home as it hits the ceiling...

If you get a ballhead with a tension control that works (and only a few do) then using a ball head is simple enough. I think a pan tilt head with micro adjustments would be nicer in some ways but I like the simplicity one control. I imagine some cameras where the centre of gravity is quite high or off centre could be problematical with a ballhead. My Ebony seems to be well centred and fairly low.. Even when using a long lens, the front and back standards at extension balance roughly (with a 360TED)

I'd like to try an Arca Cube though :-)

Tim

Thanks Tim.
I'm glad you like the 3540XLS, especially at full height. That's a strong point for me. You have hit the bull's eye here, since my major problem with the G1378M ball head is indeed the friction/tension control. I really need to tighten it strong for it to work reasonably. If I unscrew just a little, there goes the smoothness.
I'm using a Shen Hao TZ45-IIA (around 1.95 kg) by the way, with my heaviest lens being a 90/5.6 Super-Angulon XL (approx. 0.7 kg).

What about the low profile G1570M? Is there a way to adapt a QR from Manfrotto for ex. that would clear its large base?

[Really Big Cameras]

Cristiano,

Tripod and head selection are very personal matters. Everyone has their own likes and dislikes. Also, the LF community is a pretty diverse. We have folks here shooting everything from sub-3 lb. ultralight 4x5s up through a 50 lb. 20x24. It would probably help us answer your questions, complete with our own personal biases, if we knew where in this spectrum you fit. So, what format are you shooting? What camera are you using? Do you like to use really long lenses, or mostly wide angles to slightly longer than normal focal lengths? It's kind of hard to give any meaningful recommendations without knowing these specific details.

But, I'll try anyway... Concerning heads, geared heads are definitely a joy to use. Unfortunately, they are either very expensive (the ARCA-SWISS Cube), very heavy (Majestic, larger Manfrotto models) or not as rigid as a ballhead or panhead of comparable (or lesser) weight (Manfroto 410). In short, like most things they are a compromise. Since you stated you're trying to lower the weight you have to carry, and already said the ARCA-SWISS Cube is out of your price range, I don't really see a geared head in your future. I really like the ease-of-use of my Manfrotto 410, but it is both heavier and not as rigid as a decent ballhead. I use it close to the vehicle, just because it's such joy to use, but when I hit the trail, it's always with a ballhead.

I used to have a love/hate relationship with ballheads for large format use. Now, it's mostly love. My first ballhead was an ARCA-SWISS B1 - might as well start with the best, and 11 - 12 years ago when I got mine it was unquestionably the best ballhead available. Even with such a magnificent piece of gear, it still took me about a year of full time shooting to get used to using a ballhead with a large format camera. But, once I got over that learning curve (after using only 3-axis heads previously), I really started to appreciate the weight saving and rock solid rigidity of the ARCA-SWISS B1. While not as "user friendly" as a geared head, or even a good three-axis head, the tension preset and elliptical ball of the B1 makes it pretty easy to use with a large format camera (once you get used to it). Getting the tension preset properly adjusted is key. You want it tight enough that the camera doesn't flop about when you let go of if, but not so tight that it's hard to move the camera.

I've tried several other ballheads over the years, usually in search of something ultralight weight for backpacking. Many of these lacked features of the ARCA-SWISS B1 (tension preset, elliptical ball, separate panning base) and none were as smooth or as rigid. But they were all still usable. Just yesterday, I got a couple new ballheads from Markins (the Q3 and M10). They are definitely in the same class as the ARCA-SWISS. Quality and smoothness of operation are excellent. Unfortunately, they are also priced in the same range as the current ARCA-SWISS Z1. I haven't tried the newer Z1, but it's purported to be a bit smaller, lighter and even stronger than the B1 it replaced - and it's less expensive, too.

One advantage of a ballhead I rarely see mentioned is their compact size. I do a lot of hiking and backpacking with my LF gear. For hayhikes, I usually just carry my tripod in my hand. For backpacking, I usually strap it horizontally across the of of my pack. I hike in the Pacific NW, which has a lot of lush foliage, and in both case I found that with a three-axis head the long handles were constantly getting tangled in the branches and leaves of trailside vegetation. Absolutely not a problem with a sleek, compact ballhead. Also, might not be an issue of you hike in a desert area with parse vegetation.

I have used a number of three-axis heads, and I admit being able to tweak each axis independently is nice. However, this and lower cost are the only advantages they have over a good ballhead. They are heavy, bulky and usually have long levers sticking out all over the place (well, in three directions to be exact). I do have the Gitzo G1520 you asked about, and like my early experiences with the ARCA-SWISS B1, I have a bit of a love/hate relationship with it. It is neither as smooth, nor as rigid as I thought it would be. Perhaps I have become spoiled by the smoothness and rock solid rigidity of the ARCA-SWISS, but by comparison the G1520 leaves a lot to be desired. I bought it specifically for use with my 7x17 Franken-ARCA. I figured with the bigger, heavier camera I'd NEED a three axis head. What I found instead is that with the tension preset at maximum, it was actually easier to precisely position the camera with the B1 than the G1520. And, the B1 is definitely more rigid when locked down than the bigger, heavier G1520. I'm not saying the G1520 is a bad head, just that it's no ARCA-SWISS. Depending on the camera your using, the large platform of the G1520 might be nice (for a large flatbed field camera, for example). But, since I use only monorail based cameras (Toho FC-45X for backpacking, ARCA-SWISS for everything else from 4x5 to 7x17), the big top platform of the Gitzo doesn't provide any benefit for me. In fact, since I'm planning to move up to an even bigger, heavier camera (14x17), I bought a used ARCA-SWISS B2 to replace the G1520 as my dedicated ULF head. The B2 is really a three axis head dressed in ballhead clothing. It LOOKS like a ballhead, but works like a three-axis head. Like the B1, it's smooth and rock solid. It's also expensive and heavy and I believe it's been discontinued. Still, I consider it the ultimate head for MY ULF needs.

On quick releases, I used to use the Bogen hex plates, but switched to ARCA-SWISS style clamps and plates about 12 years ago and will never go back to ANY fixed cavity QR system. The ARCA-style clamps and plates are far, far, far, far superior in EVERY way (in my opinion). They are absolutely as solid as you can get and since they can be matched to the equipment being used, they are generally smaller and lighter than fixed cavity one-size-fits-all (not really) plates. This standard is well supported by multiple ballhead manufacturers and several plate makers (Really Right Stuff, Kirk, etc.). No matter what head you get, I highly, HIGHLY recommend an ARCA-style QR clamp. It's a defacto "standard" for a reason. I really is better than the alternatives. Lever lock clamps seem to be all the rage these days, but for my money, I'm sticking with the older style threaded locking knob.

In any case, that's a few general recommendations and comments based on my years of personal experience. Once I know what kind of gear you plan to put on top of your tripod, maybe I'll post some similar comments on tripod legs to consider.

Kerry Thalmann
Really Big Cameras
http://www.reallybigcameras.com