Chamonix is coming!

[GPS]

Just on the sideline of the main issue of this thread - I agree with you. Paul,that your announcements are not in the same class as the brazen on-line business that Hugo announced in this thread. I'm sure it will be dealt with in accordance with the guidelines of this forum.
When it comes to the open declaration of copying other cameras by this "Chamonix" factory loudly expressed by it's only business represent ant in the US, Hugo Zhang, I'm in principle opposed to this kind of stealing the intellectual property of other manufactures. As to their legal actions, taken in future, I leave it entirely on them. Which doesn't change anything on the principal point that the outright copying of other cameras has its legal dangers...

[GPS]

Thanks to the moderators for deleting the "Chamonix" business threads!

[Bruce Barlow]

My good friend Richard Ritter is looking better all the time.

And it is very sad to see what's been done to Kerry Thalmann - one of the great gentlemen of the LF world.

[Michel ROUX]

Hello Emmanuel

In the 80'
They was also a japanese brand called "ALPAGE" , probably form Alpine group.
These tape recorders were one the best available , regarding price and quality (In every terms)
As you also remember the ALPA from Sinar
and A.L.P.S ( connectors )
If I do remember well, CHAMONIX is a well known orange cake from NESTLE, and still alive.
It gives little room for a LF brand
Logos and brand names are half of a successful project.

So,
Dear chinese manufacturer,
Work on this too.

Best regards

[Ted Harris]

Hugo, another question that has been nagging me since the beginning of the thread .... are you writing these posts or just 'pasting' them here for the company principal? Some of them sound like they are written by someone referring to you in the third person and none of them 'read' like other posts you have made since you joined the Forum.

[David A. Goldfarb]

Lastly, and to me the largest travesty being committed, is the absolute betrayal of Kerry Thallman... a devoted patron, mentor and fountainhead of LF and ULF practice and promotion. After having done all the investigation, groundwork, and promotion, and especially having put his hard earned reputation on the line... to have the folks at Chamonix cast that aside for clearly self serving reasons is a breach of honor and an outright betrayal.

This is indeed the issue, and if this fact did not leave such a bad taste in so many mouths, as it evidently has, I suspect there would be less objection to the commercial nature of the announcement, and many of us would be asking questions about the cameras, as we did when Kerry himself was making announcements for Chamonix.

[Iskra 2]

Lastly, and to me the largest travesty being committed, is the absolute betrayal of Kerry Thallman... a devoted patron, mentor and fountainhead of LF and ULF practice and promotion. After having done all the investigation, groundwork, and promotion, and especially having put his hard earned reputation on the line... to have the folks at Chamonix cast that aside for clearly self serving reasons is a breach of honor and an outright betrayal.

Sadly, this does not come as a surprise to me. I have been living almost every day of the last four years here in China, engaged in the business of manufacturing cameras. During this time I have learned a lot about Chinese mentality... actually, I'm now happily married to one. Of the many things I have learned, one stands out more clearly than any other... Chinese "Face" IS NOT, and should NEVER be confused with the Western sense of "Honor". Until you live here for a while, you can not understand the true meaning of "Face", and what an immoral and destructive concept it truly is. This is not to be interpreted as a condemnation of the Chinese, simply a cultural fact of life that one must understand and be prepare for.

Incidentally, Chinese women are not actively tutored, matriculated into, or held accountable by (or to) the behavioral implications of "Face"... only the males are.

Paul, this is probably off topic; but, I need to understand this "Face" concept better. Any examples that demonstrate the differences between "Face" and "Honor" would be appreciated.

Some associates of mine are dealing with a Chinese business ...... and experiencing rather unusual commitements and deliveries. How do Chinese "do business"?

Regards.

[John Bowen]

My good friend Richard Ritter is looking better all the time.

And it is very sad to see what's been done to Kerry Thalmann - one of the great gentlemen of the LF world.

I couldn't be happier with my Ritter 7x17. As I've stated before Richard made some modifications to his camera to accommodate a left handed photographer with oversized hands. It's a delight to pick up the phone and speak to Richard (in english) about all things photographic. He is a wealth of information and is more than happy to share it. I also know that if my camera ever needs repairs or a modification, I can have it in Richard's hands in 3-4 days via USPS.

Kerry too, has always been willing to share his extensive knowledge of photographic equipment.

[Hugo Zhang]

Ted,

I have written all the posts.

Paul,

You really don't know what has happened. To protect other people's privacy, I will not say anything here. Judge not or you will be judged, especially when you know nothing at all. I feel sad for you that after staying 4 years in China, you are surrounded by Chinese males who don't know what honor is.

I didn't know new items can't be posted at this forum. I am OK with the facts that they are deleted and I will not follow suggestions that I repost them in this thread.

Anyone interested can email me at hugoz_2000@yahoo.com for prices and technical details.

I know exactly who I am and what I am doing here. I have learned a lot from nice people in this forum and have made some friends. People are actually different than they appear to be and people do change. Live to learn and to discover. I am amused by the heat generated by my thread.

[r.e.]

It seems to me that there is a lot of confusion about the policy of this site on business annoucements.

Mr. Zhang posted in a part of the site that is expressly for commercial announcements. His post makes it clear that he has a commercial interest in the product. He did the right thing by posting under this topic.

On the other hand, there are participants in this site who regularly recommend their own products in other parts of the forum and without disclosing their interest in the product. A couple of weeks ago, someone made his first post on this forum saying that he was interested in large format and asking how to begin. The very first response was from someone who recommended his own products while neglecting to mention that he has an interest in the products. Not a single person found this odd, or at least not odd enough to point out to the newcomer that the reply was from someone who has a commercial interest in his recommendation. Or maybe this has happened so often at this point that people are worn out raising the issue. Or maybe Mr. Zhang just doesn't have as much clout.

The following is a forum that has enunciated a policy on commercial posts that seems to work very well: www.jwsound.net Click on "Discussion Group" and then on the topic "Manufacturers and Dealers". The first thread in that topic, "Board for manufacturers, dealers and companies" sets out the forum policy. The policy is sensible and it works. The "antics" to which Mr. Wexler, the forum owner, refers in the policy, are the sort of thing that seems to go on here rather frequently. They are among the reasons that Mr. Wexler started his own forum as a civilized alternative to the usenet motion picture sound forum.

Mr. Wexler's forum is about sound, not photography. However, I think that the forum's policy and experience with this issue is instructive because the motion picture sound community is small, there are close links between customers and vendors and the same problem that comes up on this site about commercial posts is also an issue in the sound community. Perhaps something can be learned from Mr. Wexler's forum.

Please note that I am not talking about intellectual property issues or the use of Mr. Thalmann's name or whether Mr. Zhang's product is good or bad having regard to build quality, support or US-China trade policy.

Cheers