Restrictions on wheels in Wilderness Areas?

[Vaughn]

One does need to be aware of the various differences in land designations and how the rules are also different depending on the agency involved. I have seen backpackers with dogs turned back by rangers in the wilderness when the trail left US Forest Service administered wilderness and into the National Park wilderness. I have heard that there is a very short stretch of the trail to Mt Whitney crosses NPS land -- so no dogs on Mt Whitney. And yes, they watch closely. Service dogs that aid with sight and/or sound impared people are allowed on NPS trails, service dogs for comfort or emotional needs are not. Which I found interesting.

Many of the trails in Prairie Creek Redwoods State Park (one of the most beautiful places on earth), and especially my favorite, the Prairie Creek Trail, have been re-conditioned and are wheelchair accessible (a lot depends on the winter storms and how soon they can get out to clear the trails). Not a wilderness area, but it comes close to being one. In the late 80's, I remember the trails being hard to find, let alone follow!

All sorts of all-terrain wheelchairs out there now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX7qbOdgHzA

Which would explain the requirement that the wheelchair be able to be used in a normal situation indoors (which also restricts width -- it has to get thru doors).

[xkaes]

OK, Let's go far afield. The topic was WHEELS in a DESIGNATED Wilderness Area. So why add in dogs in NON-wilderness areas? Let's stay on topic.

[Vaughn]

No.

[David Lobato]

Staying on topic of wheels, physical preparation is necessary for wilderness travel, even if allowed on wheels. Desk jockeys just can't turn off the laptop and hit the trail on foot. Training is necessary, sign on a 10K run wheelchair division race, or start a rigorous training regime. The Pikes Peak road is not wilderness, so a practice trip muscling to the top and rolling down (how to descend that 3000 feet with your hands for brakes) would be good preparation.

[xkaes]

One does need to be aware of the various differences in land designations and how the rules are also different depending on the agency involved. I have seen backpackers with dogs turned back by rangers in the wilderness when the trail left US Forest Service administered wilderness and into the National Park wilderness. I have heard that there is a very short stretch of the trail to Mt Whitney crosses NPS land -- so no dogs on Mt Whitney. And yes, they watch closely. Service dogs that aid with sight and/or sound impared people are allowed on NPS trails, service dogs for comfort or emotional needs are not. Which I found interesting.

Many of the trails in Prairie Creek Redwoods State Park (one of the most beautiful places on earth), and especially my favorite, the Prairie Creek Trail, have been re-conditioned and are wheelchair accessible (a lot depends on the winter storms and how soon they can get out to clear the trails). Not a wilderness area, but it comes close to being one. In the late 80's, I remember the trails being hard to find, let alone follow!

All sorts of all-terrain wheelchairs out there now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX7qbOdgHzA

Which would explain the requirement that the wheelchair be able to be used in a normal situation indoors (which also restricts width -- it has to get thru doors).

OK, let's add DOGS and ATV's to the discussion -- which started out as WHEELS on a camera cart in a DESIGNATED WILDERNESS.

Talk about muddying the waters!!!

[Vaughn]

Go take a hike...
And you might tone down the yelling, youngster.

[Drew Bedo]

I perceive the issue as what I would call "The Right to Try", or maybe "The Right To Decide"'. As a visually impaired person, there are things that I do not want to attempt. In an urban environment, this usually involves crossing a street. Because I cannot see a car a half-block away, I will walk an additional 100 yards or more to cross at a light while fully sighted pedestrians J-walk (run). Yet I would be deeply offended if told that because I am legally blind I cannot make the decision( to make the attempt to cross or not) for myself.

Every few years there is a sensational mountain rescue event that is widely reported by the mainstream news outlets. The event may end with a successful recovery of the mountaineers, or it may end with tragic fatalities. Each time this happens, some ill-informed reporter suggests that climbers should not be allowed in the mountains in winter, or when storms are likely; whatever condition the reporter thinks contributed to the need for a rescue.

Each time this is proposed, some legal expert or administrative authority points out that bad judgement cannot be legislated away.

It is my opinion that: In a wilderness area, If some wheelchair athlete feels the need to see how far he can push it, there should be no restriction other the natural terrain. If he can bring along an LF camera and other gear, I say let them go for it.

[xkaes]

I perceive the issue as what I would call "The Right to Try", or maybe "The Right To Decide"'. As a visually impaired person, there are things that I do not want to attempt. In an urban environment, this usually involves crossing a street. I will walk an additional 100 yards or more to cross at a light while fully sighted pedestrians J-walk. Yet I would be deeply offended if told thatbecause I am legally blind I cannot make the decision to make the attempt to cross or not for myself.

Every few years there is a sensational mountain rescue event that is widely reported by the mainstream news outlets. The event may end with a successful recovery of the mountaineers, or it may end with tragic fatalities. Each time this happens, some ill-informed reporter suggests that climbers should not be allowed in the mountains in winter, or when storms are likely; whatever condition the reporter thinks contributed to the need for a rescue.

Each time this is proposed, some legal expert or administrative authority points out that bad judgement cannot be legislated away.

It is my opinion that: In a wilderness area, If some wheelchair athlete feels the need to see how far he can push it, there should be no restriction other the natural terrain. If he can bring along an LF camera and other gear, I say let them go for it.

These are good points, but they are WAY off target. We started out talking about a photographer taking a wheeled cart full of camera gear into a DESIGNATED wilderness area -- not very likely to happen in any event. But now we are talking about someone in a wheelchair taking large format gear into a wilderness area. I've seen a LOT of weird things in my life, but I know I will never see that! We are discussing a NON-ISSUE.

[Drew Bedo]

It is not "just a rule", it is an essential part of the whole concept of wilderness.

.

I could be wrong, and I often am, but I understood this ban on wheels in wilderness areas to be a regulation rather than statute law. If it is mere a regulation promulgated by a federal agency, all it takes to render it inoperative is an executive order.

In any case, my understanding from reading this and other recent threads, is that the current regulations do allow wheelchairs, both manual and electric as well as some service dogs. So persons with physical limitations are not barred from using some assistive devices or even a dog to get around as best they can.

It is amazing what can be loaded onto an indoor appropriate wheelchair. There is a whole niche industry oriented at that.

[Drew Bedo]

All sorts of all-terrain wheelchairs out there now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX7qbOdgHzA

Which would explain the requirement that the wheelchair be able to be used in a normal situation indoors (which also restricts width -- it has to get thru doors).

Right you are on indoor appropriate wheelchairs vs ATV chairs: I have seen one with tank tracks!