Bye, bye, Adorama

[Asher Kelman]

I used to think Adorama and B&H were "it" when it came to photography. But that was when I was using 35mm and medium format. Even in medium format my interest began to wane (lack of Rollei SLR equipment....& knowledge), and now that I'm in large format both seem rather useless. I'll still pick up some photo paper there, but that's about where it ends. Having visited the used department for both stores, I can truly say their stuff is WAY overpriced.
--A

I buy from Adorama and they have always rated lenses conservatively and delivered as promised. I have had others complain and so that shows they need to tighten up Q.C. for sure.

B&H is in a whole class by itself. They have perhaps the largest inventory, a huge staff and yet 99% of the time they deliver what they say at a price that's competitve and the products are exactly as stated! Further when things go wrong, as somethimes things do, they correct the mistake, usually with one phone call.

Used gear sold in a photography forum is a bargain for all of us since the buyer pays less and the seller keeps more. A mega store, like B&H, however, has to pay for shelf space and all the overhead it demands. That view camera, gathering dust or not has to pay it's way just the same as a Canon 1DIII. So one cannot expect to get the used LF camera for the same price as on a photography bulletin board! Unless you know the person, buying at KEH, B&H and so forth means one does pay more, even WAY more. Still one get a large company behind the product.

One thing for sure, B&H and Adorama should never be mentioned in the same breath as "the Brooklyn hustle" scammers. Especially in the case of B&H, if everyone tried to do business the way that B&H carries itself, then we'd have a far more ethical world. I'd add to this Canoga Camera, Samy's Camera (unfortunately having only about 15 used and 1-2 new LF cameras (an 8x10 Canham) in stock in the LA store) in California. KEH goes to the top of the list in understating the descriptions of used items. For KEH "Bargain" is actually "Prety good and perfectly functional camera", LOL! BTW, Allen's camera in PA is another reliable store one can trust.

Asher

[Christopher Nisperos]

Like these guys Christopher:

http://donwiss.com/pictures/BrooklynStores/

"Heeeey, you wanna buya camera?"

Thanks for the information, Sam. I think every mail-order buyer ought to see the link you referenced. Regarding the prevalence of dishonest stores, here are a few quotes I found interesting:

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"It is a perennial problem for us, particularly in New York, not necessarily for New York customers but for customers around the country," said Anthony Barbera, manager of the Information and Investigations Department of the Better Business Bureau of New York. "It is kind of a gray area, and we don't have enforcement power."

Keeping track of the companies has been a challenge, Mr. Barbera said, because they shift identities, shedding each Web site as it gains a bad reputation.

Without evidence of outright fraud, law enforcement agencies have largely declined to pursue criminal charges. This year, the state attorney general, Eliot Spitzer, mediated four complaints against Price Rite and referred two to the city Department of Consumer Affairs.

"It's just not something we have the resources to pursue, in terms of you need a pattern and you "It is a perennial problem for us, particularly in New York, not necessarily for New York customers but for customers around the country," said Anthony Barbera, manager of the Information and Investigations Department of the Better Business Bureau of New York. "It is kind of a gray area, and we don't have enforcement power."

Keeping track of the companies has been a challenge, Mr. Barbera said, because they shift identities, shedding each Web site as it gains a bad reputation.

Without evidence of outright fraud, law enforcement agencies have largely declined to pursue criminal charges. This year, the state attorney general, Eliot Spitzer, mediated four complaints against Price Rite and referred two to the city Department of Consumer Affairs.

Keeping track of the companies has been a challenge, Mr. Barbera said, because they shift identities, shedding each Web site as it gains a bad reputation.

Without evidence of outright fraud, law enforcement agencies have largely declined to pursue criminal charges. This year, the state attorney general, Eliot Spitzer, mediated four complaints against Price Rite and referred two to the city Department of Consumer Affairs.

"It's just not something we have the resources to pursue, in terms of you need a pattern and you need a number of complaints and a similarity in the pattern in order to put an action together,"

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On this last point (needing similar complaints), if Mr. Spitzer were going after Adorama, for instance, the thought occurs that a thread such as this might suffice as a strong piece of evidence! The irony is that internet —the medium which has made it simpler for the con-men to fleece the consumer-cum-sucker— has also made it simpler to rapidly spread the word as to who those very crooks are. Weight and counterweight in one. Whew. But the warning, "caveat emptor" remains true. These alerts do no good if unread. Perhaps someone should create a website as a clearinghouse of complaints: "www.photoswindle.com" ?

Best,

Christopher

. . . . . .

[tgtaylor]

Adorama's not that bad. In fact I never really had a problem with them. Although they apparently hit the digital/film panic button and priced a film camera too low (way too low) on their website and then recovered their senses and called me up and wanted more, they made good on the initial price and even called me back one day and offered a $15 discount on my next lens for the camera (Toyo 45AX). I never took them up on the latter but just recently I purchased some darkroom equiptment from them that wasn't available locally and wasn't in-stock at B&H. Quick delivery and no problem.

[Christopher Nisperos]

Adorama's not that bad.

ACT 1
. . . they . . . priced a film camera too low (way too low)
... and then...called me up and wanted more . . .

ACT 2
they made good on the initial price and even called me back one day and offered a $15 discount on my next lens for the camera (Toyo 45AX).

Hi Mr. Taylor,

Act 2 is what any honest retailer does anyway. In my informed opinion, it does not excuse Act 1 and moreover, doesn't exactly show how they're "not that bad"!

Just my opinion (which includes the possibility that you're probably a very forgiving guy!).

Best,

Christopher

. . . . . . .

[JW Dewdney]

My first experience with them was purchasing a 180mm sironar in 1985 or so... it had a half inch chip out of the front of the glass. After that - i bought from them only when absolutely necessary...!

[Asher Kelman]

My first experience with them was purchasing a 180mm sironar in 1985 or so... it had a half inch chip out of the front of the glass. After that - i bought from them only when absolutely necessary...!

JW,

That sounds aweful! Was the chip in the package? What did they say? Could be some guerilla packed it. I cannot believe that the guys that graded the lens tried to put over a fast one on you! Was this sold as a used lens and how was it graded?

Did they refuse to correct things?

I remember a Canon 200 1.8 shipped from a guy that sells a lot arrived with the front element loose. He told them to collect from the shipping company!

I asked if he's photographed the lens prior to delivery. That's what I always do! Anyway he was so offended by me asking the question that he's never spoken to me again!

Now that's the risk one has with a private sale. With the superstores, errors or accidents can happen since the people packing and lugging the packages are, like all of us, descendants of apes!

Did your experience with Adorama really go over the top? Was it really bad practice or what happens with big companies with a huge staff?

Also. remember, the person who packed the 180mm sironar in 1985 is now probably long gone for not turning up or some other issue! That's 22 years ago!!

Since then I've bought many expensive lenses, especially in the past 5 years and never had a problem!

Asher

"Journeys To the Masterpiece"

[JW Dewdney]

No - there was no chip inside the box - that I saw anyway. It was a 'brand new' (well - being SOLD AS a brand new) lens. It was about $175 or whatever they were at the time...! The funny thing about it was that the sales person didn't look surprised when I opened the box to check and noticed that. He seemed bizarrely cool about it. (I was buying it in the store - good thing I opened the box!). I'm guessing he was quite aware of it beforehand. My guess is that the lens had an accident in the store (fell to the floor) and they were trying to sell it - hoping someone wouldn't notice and not have a chance to return it. But who knows...

[gr82bart]

I've said it before and I'll say it again about Adorama or many of the other NYC stores - B&H included. You have to go there in person, know exactly what you want ahead of time, don't ask a lot of questions - if any actually, inspect the items right there on the spot and buy/don't buy.

Deviating from this procedure will severely reduce your buying experience.

Regards, Art.

[mikie]

I recently purchased an SD Card, for my camera that does not work. I called Adorama to get a refund, and they told me, no refund will be made. I am stuck with an SD card that does not work.
I asked to speak to a manager and they sent me to voice mail.

Adorama will not be getting my business anymore, and I plan to tell as many of my friends about my experience with this crummy company as possible.

Good bye Adorama

Mikie

[gr82bart]

I recently purchased an SD Card, for my camera that does not work. I called Adorama to get a refund, and they told me, no refund will be made. I am stuck with an SD card that does not work.

Hmmm ... you live in California and bought an SD card in NYC? I assume you were visiting then? If so, that really sucks.

Regards, Art.