Ebay - Think this seller is a happy puppy?

[Roger Cole]

Yeah, I really don't understand it. PayPal can damned sure get the money instantly FROM my bank. I can pay my credit card online from my bank as soon as the next day. Why the hell it takes 3-5 days to transfer money from one account to another within the same bank I have no idea at all. I'd give up and switch to a credit union or at least another bank, except that this one has branches in many local grocery stores, including one two miles from my house, that are open until 7 PM weekdays and 5 PM Saturdays. That's less important than it used to be, but they also recently changed their ATMs to supposedly read checks directly without using an envelope. I haven't been able to get a deposit to work properly in one of those yet.

[JMB]

I never use Pay Pal because of their attitude about resolving these kinds of problems and their otherwise predatory way of doing business.

[CP Goerz]

My mind must have been locked in a time warp, indeed a buyer can NEVER have a negative feedback the way the system is set up now. I often receive E mails from buyer asking me to trust them with payment at a later date as they have 100% feedback :-)



You can however block bidders who have had unpaid cases against them and that number can be quite a bit lower. I think I have mine set to two cases in six months or whatever the least is, it tends to cut out buyers who don't pay but certainly not the buyers who bid/pay then try to renegotiate a lower price which is a more common occurrence. All the negative feedback I've been given in recent years were from buyers who wanted a discounted price after they bought something and instead I asked for the item to be returned.

[EdSawyer]

No they won't. They can't do an ACH transfer without your approval. I've had twice that I as a seller got screwed by Paypal/buyers on this exact same problem. Both times, I took the money out of paypal into my account before shipping. Both times, Paypal could not get it - nor did they try. The most recent time was maybe 1.5 years ago.

Your bank or CC company will generally stand up for you against paypal in this regard. Sure, paypal will try to send your account to collections, but that's not too difficult to take care of - they have no judgement against you, just a claim (which is invalid anyway).

As a result of my paypal accounts going negative "permanently" due to the above screwjobs, I ended up having to start new paypal accounts 2 different times. and a new ebay account once.

Nonetheless, I don't bother selling on eprey anymore in general.

FWIW
-Ed

'The only possible way to avoid this is to ship only after you have transferred the money out of paypal into your own account (where they can't get it).'


That won't help. If you read the many fine print pages that are adhered to the 'consent' button you clicked to have a paypal account you'll see that they can ,and will, draw funds from your credit card or bank account to cover the chargeback.

[EdSawyer]

No, he didn't transfer the funds out, at least not initially. He had a 21 day (at least) hold on them. Even after that the transaction log does not show them getting transferred out. (though he did mention about the account going negative so somehow something must have transferred? hard to say from the log shown, exactly.)

And as I already explained, that does solve things to some extent (transferring it out.)

As others explained, that won't work and if you read the linked story the seller DID transfer the money out. They may have even linked to a debit card, because note that the chargeback resulted in the PayPal account going negative and threats from PayPal to turn it over to collections.

[Kuzano]

PAYPAL Can't tie up your funds if they cannot find them.....

OK, so you need a checking account to start a Paypal account. Do it... Do it this way and then.....

1) First, if you have a Bank account already linked to eBay/Paypal Unlink it... (you may not be able to do that until you put a new one on..to do that, do this)

2) Take some cash..$300 or a bit more.

3) Walk into a bank other than one you do business with already. (It's important that you deposit cash and NEVER EVER transfer any money into this new account from ANY OTHER bank. If you put anything in, always do cash. NEVER transfer any money out of this account to ANY OTHER bank. The purpose here ist to isolate this account from any other banking you do, business or otherwise)

4) get a debit card with this account, but NEVER use it in conjunction with any other banking you do. Only for cash withdrawals from the specific bank account you set up for Paypal.

5) Now link this new account with Paypal, OR use it to open your Paypal account.

6) If you use it on your Paypal account, which already has another bank account or card, you should now be able to take the original, or other account off Paypal, and/or eBay.

7) Keep the isolated account isolated... no transfers to or from any other account.

8) NEVER keep any money in PayPal.. EVER. Get the Paypal Debit card and do cash withdrawal, any where, including the new bank account, buy NEVER from any bank you use for personal or business banking.

9) After a short time, draw the new bank account down to a minimum balance..perhaps $100 and always keep it drawn down to the minimum.

NONE OF THIS CONSTITUTES FRAUD and meets the letter of banking, credit card and Paypal/eBay criteria

All these steps should prevent Paypal effectively from getting their hands on any of your money. Complete break from any of your routine or normal banking.

Does it work.... I've been doing this for about 5 years, and Paypal has never locked up any of my money. Neither have they bugged me at all about minimum limits or anything similar about the account they do know about.

It is Key that you don't use any normal bank account or card as a funding source for Paypal. Only the new or min balance account.

It is EASY to follow this course of action, but requires some close attention during transactions. I have never lost a dime on any eBay transaction that I did not personally negotiate in a direct contact with a buyer or seller. Never an eBay or Paypal complaint.

However, I have a couple of other protocols in place. Strict on feedback... tend toward over 100 (buyer or seller) and 99% positive. NO exceptions. Nobody has any thing that rare when it comes to eBay. I don't place bids outside those limits. I look at bidders on my sales and when sketchy feedback shows up, I remove the bids that violate my rules and contact the bidder (through the eBay contact system --NEVER direct) and inform them the bid was removed for feedback on them and they can contact me with explanation (no one ever does)

You don't have to deal with every person who knows how to push the buttons on eBay, and I don't. As far as newby, let the newbys build up feedback with each other. If they are persistent, they are committed and they will be the ones who make eBay work

I do mostly film camera's, I shutter at the maze of crap that consitutes digital cameras and electronics for the most part. I have 440 100% positive feedbacks. I sell all sorts of film camera's up to 4X5. I sell internationally because almost every 4X5 I've sold for the past 3-4 years have been purchased internationally. US buyer have been non performing, even on some excellent deals I have listed.

Sorry guys... but I am not about to give up on the benefits of eBay Paypal. Sometimes I have done workarounds on payments, but I take comfort in only one aspect of Paypal... They cannot get to my money.

Now regarding the other aspect of Paypal locking funds to sellers for up to 21 days, THAT IS ONLY related to your activity level. Get to and maintain the activity level to avoid the hold on funds and it will not happen to you. I have not had a funds hold for over two years, when my account activity was spread a little too thin. Now I am regarding eBay as a much bigger part of supplementing my normal income, and I keep the activity up. No other aspect of any sale influences the funds holds other than reaching and maintaining the activity level.

[Kuzano]

As others explained, that won't work and if you read the linked story the seller DID transfer the money out. They may have even linked to a debit card, because note that the chargeback resulted in the PayPal account going negative and threats from PayPal to turn it over to collections.

I opened a second account for this purpose meaning to do it, but the problem turned out to be that it takes 3-5 days for my bank to transfer money from my main account to the secondary account. That's useless unless I know well in advance I'm planning to buy something, and the approximate price.

On the first part of your post... I am not concerned about Paypal going negative on balance, and a threat to turn me over for collection. That takes time, and I do have the option to negotiate WITHOUT my funds locked. Their position is not as strong as mine in that case, and I have my money.

You answered your own second concern that I listed here. I get off my ASS and handle the money directly. Sometimes relying on sitting in my comfy chair and doing everything with my computer is way too comfortable and potentially costly. The bank where I opened my "Let's screw with Paypal" account is two blocks from my home

I repeat, you have to work outside the bank/credit card/online system on some of this to keep your comfort level up and increase your own security.

[Kuzano]

www.paypalsucks.com

A bit of time on the site will clear the air on many questions you may have.

[Roger Cole]

On the first part of your post... I am not concerned about Paypal going negative on balance, and a threat to turn me over for collection. That takes time, and I do have the option to negotiate WITHOUT my funds locked. Their position is not as strong as mine in that case, and I have my money.

You answered your own second concern that I listed here. I get off my ASS and handle the money directly. Sometimes relying on sitting in my comfy chair and doing everything with my computer is way too comfortable and potentially costly. The bank where I opened my "Let's screw with Paypal" account is two blocks from my home

I repeat, you have to work outside the bank/credit card/online system on some of this to keep your comfort level up and increase your own security.

You go ahead and do that, if you're that interested and motivated. And I understand you would be, given you sell a lot. Me, I long ago decided that I just wouldn't bother selling on eBay and buy only. As a buyer only the risks are quite minimal. Even so I don't buy anything too expensive there.

[Mike Anderson]

7) Keep the isolated account isolated... no transfers to or from any other account.

So if this isolation isn't maintained (say I just deposite a check from my regular bank account to the PayPal bank account) PayPal is going to somehow (directly or indirectly) get to the regular bank account?