Best 'starter' lens?

[Rafal Lukawiecki]

My experience with LF is that you never actually get it right, so for your first camera, I'd advise getting it cheap
When you understand what you need for the photographs that you want to make then get the appropriate camera (and possibly sell the old one).
Some people simply don't get on with the whole LF workflow and it's better to figure that out on the cheap if possible.

Marizu, your advice is sound and safe, though it may also be possible to take a managed risk on buying a better camera, or a lens, to start with, and not to have to change those later. To reduce the risk, ideally, OP would rent it, or a similar one, for a while, to see if it works for him. By better, I do not imply necessarily new, it could be a more cared for, or newer, less used, etc., but perhaps not driven by being the cheapest that fits a general spec. As others said, sometimes, it is worth saving a little and getting the right tripod, than changing a poorer one several times. A cheap first experience can be too frustrating to stay the course. M1tch is doing well by asking for recommendations, and reading up the superb resources available here, APUG, and the suggested books.

I suppose I may be a relative LF newcomer, as I bought my first 4x5 in 2000. However, 12 years later, I am still using it, it is still my only LF camera, and I cannot think of needing anything else. It does all I need, and it gives me pleasure to get to know it better each time I use it. Except for 1 of my 5 lenses, all of them are the same ones, I have always had them. My tripod, is also the same, though I have changed the head. So is the backpack. In the long run, I think I have also saved some money this way, though the initial purchases were more expensive than cheapest. And they took more work, but I did them slowly, taking time.

I am not saying this is the right way for everyone. For instance, my photography is not as varied as that of others, hence needing only one camera, but I just wanted to share a slightly different perspective.

[John Kasaian]

Marizu, your advice is sound and safe, though it may also be possible to take a managed risk on buying a better camera, or a lens, to start with, and not to have to change those later. To reduce the risk, ideally, OP would rent it, or a similar one, for a while, to see if it works for him. By better, I do not imply necessarily new, it could be a more cared for, or newer, less used, etc., but perhaps not driven by being the cheapest that fits a general spec. As others said, sometimes, it is worth saving a little and getting the right tripod, than changing a poorer one several times. A cheap first experience can be too frustrating to stay the course. M1tch is doing well by asking for recommendations, and reading up the superb resources available here, APUG, and the suggested books.

I suppose I may be a relative LF newcomer, as I bought my first 4x5 in 2000. However, 12 years later, I am still using it, it is still my only LF camera, and I cannot think of needing anything else. It does all I need, and it gives me pleasure to get to know it better each time I use it. Except for 1 of my 5 lenses, all of them are the same ones, I have always had them. My tripod, is also the same, though I have changed the head. So is the backpack. In the long run, I think I have also saved some money this way, though the initial purchases were more expensive than cheapest. And they took more work, but I did them slowly, taking time.

I am not saying this is the right way for everyone. For instance, my photography is not as varied as that of others, hence needing only one camera, but I just wanted to share a slightly different perspective.

FWIW, I'd say condition means everything. The last thing I'd want to see a newbie LF'er have to deal with is a leaky, unsteady, or otherwise troublesome camera/film holders/lens &shutter.
When you get into Speeders and Crowns they have limitations, but those aren't an issue if the camera is used for the purposes for which it was intended (but that could be said about all LF cameras!) If weight isn't an issue, an old monorail will likely be even more affordable and just as "bullet proof." If hiking is a priority, then by all means look at a folder. If just learning the ropes is the first order, any good, working camera should fill the bill and enable you to decide what features rock your world.

That said, what I've found is that if you look at a camera and can visualize yourself using it---and want to use it---that will likely be the ticket since you'll actually want to get out and use it. Too many LF cameras sit around collecting termites (or rust) after the newness wears of and the drudgery begins. The more you shoot, likely the better you'll get and the more pleasing the results and...the more you'll shoot!
It won't have to be a new camera--maybe even a speeder or crown--- just so long as it is a camera you want to get out there and mess with.

[Rafal Lukawiecki]

FWIW, I'd say condition means everything. The last thing I'd want to see a newbie LF'er have to deal with is a leaky, unsteady, or otherwise troublesome camera/film holders/lens [...]
Too many LF cameras sit around collecting termites (or rust) after the newness wears of and the drudgery begins. The more you shoot, likely the better you'll get and the more pleasing the results and...the more you'll shoot!
It won't have to be a new camera--maybe even a speeder or crown--- just so long as it is a camera you want to get out there and mess with.

John, how I wish a friend of mine heard your advice a while ago, before I met her. 60% of her effort, and film, is now going into fixing issues, like diagnosing random flares due to every possible type of a light leak, inability to use a front tilt, or very uncertain shutters. After a spell of leaving LF aside, and a trial-by-faulty MF backs, she returned to LF, persevering and fixing some problems—other people most probably would just get disheartened. The hard part for me, watching this, is that she has a good eye for composition, access to hard to reach landscapes, and actually has something special, and personal to her, to express this way, on film.

[Joseph Dickerson]

M1tch,

Good advice above about buying a lens (or lenses) from one of the major makers. But I don't think anyone has pointed out that the Caltar or Calumet branded lenses were/are made by the very same manufacturers and are usually priced a bit cheaper due to the "lesser" brand. No difference in quality, cheaper price, that really appeals to my Scottishness. I have had several Caltar lenses over the years and everyone has been excellent.

JD

[JBAphoto]

Look through the membership and see if there is anyone close enough to you to show you what a couple of lenses look like through the camera

If you are planning to work with landscape consider a 135, a tiny bit wider than the standard 150, but has a greater feel of engagement in the landscape without getting too wide to use easily. Again just get a bog standard Symmar

If you are considering portraits or still life, consider a 210 starter, again a bog standard Symmar - 'though I prefer my ancient 210 Xenar to my too-bitey Symmar

Note, I emboldened "consider" because that is what I am saying!!!!

[Rafal Lukawiecki]

As JBAphoto suggested, getting together with others is a great idea. In Dublin, APUGers meet twice a year, I suppose there may be something similar in UK. As far as I know, Dec 9th, there is a Wolverhampton Camera Fair, and some very experienced members, who post here, should be going there. It could be a chance to pick some gear, with less risk. Or, if, by a stroke of chance, you were near Dublin on 9th, we are having a LF meet-up.

[Joseph O'Neil]

For what it is worth, when I was first starting out in LF, I found a 210mm "difficult" to work with. I personally found a 135mm easy to work with, and to this day, I find it is my favourite lens to work with overall. I have changed with specific brands and type of 135mm lens I use over the years, but the size to me has always been first choice.

Also, for what is is worth, and everybody is different, so bear that in mind, I personally like a 180mm over a 210mm. Dunno why, but just how I frame things in my head beforehand, the 180mm fits better in my "mind's eye" so to speak.

good luck
joe

[m1tch]

I have gone with a 135mm lens, I have actually gone with a Pacemaker speed graphic camera 5x4 size which has been fully restored and CLAed and its running a 135mm Schneider Kreuznach f4.7 lens, also the speed graphic has a focal plane shutter as well so I can also get a barrel lens 135mm works out to I think a 45mm for an small format SLR so a slightly wide normal which should be good for a starter focal distance. I will be on the look out for a convertable lens as well at some point as they seem pretty useful instead of having a bag full of lenses and boards!

Here are some images of the actual camera that is arriving on Tuesday:




In the future I will probably 'upgrade' to something like a 8x10 and a 'normal' large format camera which has more movements and allowed for the use of wider lenses, but I went for this one to start me off as its half the price of a 'body only' Shen.

[Darin Boville]

Everything on this thread is right on the money--I too had (have) a 150 convertible and like it--but I would just add that many people, including me, starting in 4x5 with a Crown Graphic (or Speed Graphic). A couple of hundred bucks with lens, widely available. Plenty of camera. Learn all that it has to offer before getting immersed in a full-movement camera and you'll be a happy guy/girl.

Edit: Our posts crossed in the mail. You cam is the perfect choice...

--Darin

[m1tch]

Thanks Darin, the guy I am getting it off has been restoring Pacemaker speed graphic and crown graphics for about 10 years, I might be tempted to get myself a rollfilm back at some point as well although I do have 3 x DDS, but no way to develop the film (that I havn't got yet lol). Its pretty cool that it has a shutter speed up to 1/1000s meaning I can buy cheaper slower shutter speed lenses (ie older lenses or barrel lenses) and still be able to shoot whatever speed I want to, the camera does have some movements on the front standard which will get me going. Just need a decent tripod now, but at least I have something to put on top of it when I do get one!