drawn to 6x17 format

[andreios]

I am also curious about the format but there is one more point that wasn't covered yet I think. There is of course the possibility of using half-darkslide with 5x7 - have tried that already, it's fine, BUT - if your aim si to travel or hike longer distances it is good to have a camera smaller than 5x7 AND mostly having the convenience of a roll film back and not lugging film holders. Imagine a multi-days trekking - how much space (and strength) you'd need for appropriate amount of filmholders (or changing tent) - and compare it with a couple of bricks of 120 rollfilm. Huge difference to me.

(In a similar line of thought I am now lusting for a backpackable 4x5 to be able to shoot 6x12 rollfilm negatives while hiking.)

[timparkin]

I've looked into this extensively and actually owned the Fuji GX617. In the end I realised that I wanted movements and a ground glass and worked out the weight of a Chamonix 4x5 with some darkslides or a 6x12 back and it worked out lighter, easier to use and I get to use movements too. Yes the 6x17 has a little bit more detail but you'd get more out of a great drum scan of 4x5 than from most dedicated 120 film scanners.

I now go out with a set of masks for the back of my 4x5 camera and shoot 4x5 film mostly (the 120 film back was too heavy). I can carry more dark slides than I can find good pictures in a day :-) If I were camping then just changing film in the evening is fine..

Tim

[Kuzano]

$1k for a DaYi 617 and $250 for a 90mm lens is hardly $2000, let alone $4000.




What about the added cost of the scanner and the stitching software?

And, how do you shoot a pano with long exposures? Say, 15 second sunset afterglows? Or subjects with movement (clouds, water etc)?

There has been an Art Panoramics for under $1000 on Australian eBay lately. Beautiful 90mm lens as well.

The Shen Hao is the best of the dedicated panoramics I've used. I'm not interested in view finder shooting, so having a backpack with 4 lenses and the GG assembly is easily manageable, even in a carry-on bag. No way that I could do that with the Fuji/DaYi/Fotoman/Gaoersi cone system.

My light travel camera is the DaYi with my 72mm attached. Camera goes in checked luggage, lens in carry on.

On the first point, my interpretation of a "dedicated" solution only includes cameras built to shoot specifically 617.

I consider view camera's with Pano backs not dedicated, and in fact a "kludge" solution. But that's a personal observation. In those cases the dedicated cameras and appropriate lenses, and ND or Center specific filters, more often come to the $2-4000 figure I posted. Yes, if you piece out the DAYI 617, the body is $1000, and I would submit that there is a complete kit on eBay right now at $2100, which considering shopping and putting together a kit is a much easier way to go. Why do so many devalue their time and effort on scratching around to put together kits. I consider my time as valuable, because I could be working on computers in my business at $85 per hour, and it's much easier for me to find computers to work on that dig around the internet for pieces to put together everything needed for certain photography solutions. However, so many do not factor in their time as a cost of sourcing kit pieces. Shame$$$ to overlook that.

The Shen Hao is a $900 camera new, and I just sold a "like new" Shen for 650. Let's use $700. Toyo 45A's can be found for $500 to $600 (no lens).The Shen 617 back is right at $600-Badgergraphics), and then add your $250 for a lens, correct filters, a loupe (not needed on my rangefinder), dark cloth - I don't use one on my Fuji, etc, equals VERY close to $2000. Again, these are NOT dedicated solutions, although they do offer more flexibility, which most people overlook in the search for 617 solutions. Again, I only consider the 4X5 as adequate for 6X12 roll film backs, while I would encourage 5X7 for 617, but then suffer the weight cost of this solution.

Regarding scanning, the EPSON V500 which can be purchase new for a one time cost of $200 or less, or a V700. For 120 roll film the V500 has the same scan characteristics as the V700.

However, In my experience, home scanning is a bigger cost in terms of valuing my time than I have found to be consistent with either V500/V700 scanners, which I have owned. It has worked out for me that having a roll of 120 professionally scanned (high resolution) for less than $20 works out to an acceptable per frame rate for digital files of much higher quality than I have ever gotten on a flatbed scanner. I don't do scanning any more, and am paying a bit over $2 each for those frames that I do ultimately have scanned.

Software... some of the best stitching software is free. The create section of Windows Live Photo gallery is in the free Window Live Photo Gallery module of the Windows live suite. Photoshop Elements, under $100 is a very capable stitch program. Stitching two or three images together is pretty much a "no brainer" with those programs. Stand alone stitch programs..... If you exhaust the Open Source or Free programs without finding the convoluted solution you may be requiring.... what??? $100 to $200.

And finally, my post was to simply open peoples minds up to the fact that shooting panos on 120 roll film does not absolutely preclude the use of a routine medium format camera. Granted movement requirements push one toward a view camera, but I have been very happy with a great many of the panos I have created by Stitching frames from my Fujica. And on the movements... does one really believe that movements can improve capture on a 6cm by 17cm piece of file? Just a question here, as I have never seen a situation where I think movements would improve an image on roll film in the viewfinder.

In fact, I have been happy with frames from my Fujifilm S3 Pro, one four frame pano which I just sold for $250. Printed at 10 x 33 inches and double matted with a 1/4 inch reveal. (recovered half the price of my S3 Pro and Nikon lens)



Point here... there some ways to do pano with minimal expense.

[Frank Petronio]

Just a heads up, Jeff is a great guy to buy from, I will vouch:

http://www.largeformatphotography.in...miya-75mm-lens

[Brian Vuillemenot]

If you really want to get into the 6X17 format, I would highly recommend buying a dedicated camera, rather than stitching. It is much easier to get into the panoramic mindset that way, and there are many photographic situations where stiching won't work, such as long exposures, low light conditions, changing weather, moving subjects, etc. Dedicated 6X17 cameras aren't really that expensive; I sold my Fuji G617 (the older model with the fixed 105 mm lens) on the bay about two years ago for not much more than $1000, so if you are patient you can get a deal. (I now use a half darkslide on 8X10 for panoramas). If I was going to stitch, I would just get a new higher res digital SLR and aquire images to stitch that way; it would save you the hassle of having to develop and scan your film.

[fotografueland]

Brian is right in many ways, all the others are also right in their ways, a fellow photographer of mine told me that his best way to technical perfect panoramas was using a Nikon D800 and stitch a lot of images together, but the best way to get his composition right was with an old Linhof Technorama. He was using the tiny viewfinder on top of the camera. I think he is right. I have also been stitching digital but I'm using a 6x17 back on a 4x5 and get much better compositions this way, the drawback is the limits on focal lengths I can use on it (only 72-150mm) and also the limiting on shifting. Top technical quality and practical use/carrying means digital and stitching, good pictures means film in a dedicated panorama camera or a large format with panorama back.
So I got me a 5x7 and are getting a 6x17 back for it, and will put the 6x17 for 4x5 aside on a shelf together with many other things that do not get used. It might cost a bit but Panoramas sells fairly well.
My answer is: There is several ways to panoramas but nothing beats seeing the image on the ground glass before you take the picture, and the hard, heavy and sometimes expensive way to a good picture makes the picture better and more satisfying to make

Trond

[timparkin]

I've looked into this extensively and actually owned the Fuji GX617. In the end I realised that I wanted movements and a ground glass and worked out the weight of a Chamonix 4x5 with some darkslides or a 6x12 back and it worked out lighter, easier to use and I get to use movements too. Yes the 6x17 has a little bit more detail but you'd get more out of a great drum scan of 4x5 than from most dedicated 120 film scanners.

I now go out with a set of masks for the back of my 4x5 camera and shoot 4x5 film mostly (the 120 film back was too heavy). I can carry more dark slides than I can find good pictures in a day :-) If I were camping then just changing film in the evening is fine..

Tim

How many need more resolution than this

http://static.timparkin.co.uk/static...ac-extract.jpg

That's a 90" wide print at >200dpi

Yes a 6x17 could get 120" print but without movements and with a more limited set of lenses. And if you think you need something a bit bigger just get a camera with rear shift. I've done this for a commission and you get an approximately 9" wide image giving a potential 160" wide print. My actual print for the commission got blown up to 300" wide at 120dpi which looked very nice never the less.

And of course you get the choice of using 4x5, square and 6x12; swapping films between shots; pushing/pulling individual shots; Ground glass on every shot; movements etc. You know the score..

Tim

[Lachlan 717]

Yes a 6x17 could get 120" print but without movements and with a more limited set of lenses.
Tim

Actually, my Shen Hao has a bucketload of movements, both front and rear, and is "limited" to 72-400mm lens options.

That being said, the image you posted offers a pretty impressive example of what your option can deliver!

[timparkin]

Actually, my Shen Hao has a bucketload of movements, both front and rear, and is "limited" to 72-400mm lens options.

That being said, the image you posted offers a pretty impressive example of what your option can deliver!

Sorry - should have said a Rangefinder style 617. :-)

[Bob Salomon]

"Yes a 6x17 could get 120" print but without movements"

The Linhof 617 S III accepts a shift adapter that can be used with their 72, 90 and 110mm lenses.