Reality Check on Prices

[rdenney]

I'm finally making the foray in LF photography and have started to acquire the big ticket items: 4x5 camera, lens, tripod and head. These have eaten up most of my budget, but there's still a long list of small items that I need. I need a reality check though on some of the prices that I'm seeing. What should a person new to LF pay for the following:

1. Loupe- I've seen these from $8 to $150
2. Light Meter- These start at $150; should I just use my Canon 40D?
3. Dark Cloth- Do I really need to spend $60 for a piece of cloth?
4. Backpack- Here it might make sense at least to spend $150
5. Scanner- Do I need this starting out? Is a good one like $700?
6. Filters- I'd like to spend a fair bit of money here b/c they actually affect your image
7. Cable Release- what kind do you want exactly?

Misc. other stuff:

7. Lens Wrench
8. Lens Wrap
9. 4x5 negative sleeves
10. Ansel Adam books 1 & 2

Out of the list above, where would you prioritize spending money? What can you skimp on or forget entirely?

Slight variation on the Petronio wisdom:

1. Cheapie plastic loupe. Put black tape on the clear base--it will improve contrast. When you learn the limitations of this loupe, you'll know what you need to look for in a better loupe without asking us idiots. Hint: That tilting loup Frank laughed at is not much use for those who use longer lenses, but if you end up liking really short lenses, the value of the tilting loupe will start to glow in the dark. Point is, you have to know how you work before you can really make that decision. But some loupe is essential, unless you have 20-10 vision at a range of 3 inches.
2. You can use your camera, but first decide what approach you will take. There are cheaper spot meters ont he used market than the Pentax Digital, though it is the favorite. The Sekonic L-488, for example, is a good one, and often goes for half the money of the Pentax. But Ansel Adams never used one. As for importance, you could only make photos using Sunny 16, but then good results in many conditions become a matter of hope rather than commitment.
3. Just get a big piece of black felt. Or a t-shirt. When it pulls off your glasses, musses your hair, allows half the light of the universe to spill onto the ground glass, makes you drip sweat onto the camera, becomes sodden if you get rained on, and takes up a cubic foot in your bag, then you'll appreciate the more expensive approaches. But there's time enough for that.
4. For how much distance? I don't use a backpack. But, unlike many here, I knew I had no intention of backpacking with my 4x5 camera, instead of optimizing for it and then never doing it. I made that mistake once before. Now, I use a Sinar flight case to which I attached wheels and an additional handle. (I paid a low amount for a very battered Sinar case and then rebuilt it, but you can spend more if you want to.) I poke an old Gitzo monopod through the handle and hook the flange over the other end of the case, and use it as a pull handle. Works fine even in fairly rough terrain. If I really carried my camera on rough terrain, I'd use a baby jogger. Metaphorically, does your off-road-equipped Jeep have mud on it? Be honest.
5. There is no other way to get 4x5 film into your computer than by using a scanner, unless you spend a fortune paying someone else to use a scanner. You can always build a darkroom. But most of us have to be pretty self-sufficient because services are now aimed at the high end of the market and are therefore rare and expensive.
6. Get a set of these. When you know what filters you'll actually use, then maybe you can consider good glass filters in a large size with step-up rings to adapt them to your various lenses. But I suspect only ($$$) Heliopan or B+W filters would be much of an improvement over the Lee polyester set. You do not need to attach these to the lens--it's easy enough to just hold them in front of the lens for the exposure. But these will attach using a rubber band.
7. As Frank says, the flat-plate lens wrench is cheap enough to just go ahead and buy. And it's easier and safer to use than the adjustible spanners, unless you get a really expensive set (like the one made by S.K. Grimes).
Edit: The other number 7: Cheap cable releases work fine for Copal and Compur shutters. Self-cocking Ilex (Universal rather than Acme) shutters are another matter, and they need the stiffer and stronger types. I've used all grades and brands. The only type I don't like is the metal spiral type, which can stretch like a spring if the shutter fights back (see above about self-cocking shutters).
8. I have used them, but now I have a case that keeps the lenses secured with air around them. In an open box as a case, they are cheap and effective. But they are not a replacement for lens caps.
9. Print-file. A pack of 100 will last you a looooong time.
10. The books are part of a standard library, but I bought mine after having done large-format work for maybe 15 years. I wish I'd bought them earlier, but that doesn't negate what I learned the hard way.

Rick "built a foundation of experience" Denney

[Jim Jones]

You've received good advice from more experienced LF photographers. Until recently my approach was from a tightwad and backyard mechanic's angle. Many items were improvised.

1. I often use a single element from an old eyepiece. An expensive loupe gives a wider view, which isn't necessary for fine focusing.

2. I usually use an old Weston Master II, Norwood, or GE because I have them in working condition. If it's too dark for selenium meters, it's too dark for me to be shooting LF.

3. Search this forum for dark cloth for many ideas. White exterior is better in hot sunlight.

4. Backpacks are a very personal choice. I don't hike further than I can carry LF gear in simple bags.

5. For many years an Epson 2450 was good enough for the 16x20 maximum size from my printer. Later scanners would be better for more critical work.

6. Definitely a polarizer, and at least a red and deep yellow for scenics if you use a wet darkroom.

7. Depends on your shutters. Scruffy releases from photographic flea markets work, but carry a spare. One pneumatic release with a long tube is occasionally useful.

A lens wrench (or improvised substitute) is needed when mounting or changing lenses on boards. Each lens should have its own board unless minimum weight is absolutely necessary.

Check kitchenware for lens containers. Some metal gift boxes also work. Soft fabric held by rubber bands works for lens wraps.

I've stored negatives in old film boxes, but sleeves are much more convenient.

There are many editions of Ansel Adams books. Even the ones many decades old have some good information. Shop online for these. Adams wasn't the only good writer on photography. Way Beyond Monochrome by Lambrecht and Woodhouse is expensive, but valuable.

An efficient lens hood is needed for many older lenses. I've improvised them from dark mat board to attach to the camera instead of to the lens.

[DrTang]

One can often find a whole set up.. camera, tripod, assorted stuff.. maybe w/o the meter and scanner..but everything else and then some on ebay or craigslist classifieds at a really good price


someone just getting out of film or some student selling it off after graduating..someone's relatives selling off the stuff..whatever

for a about what one might pay for just the camera alone

that's how I get most of my stuff... buy a whole lot of it..sell off the stuff I already have or that which I have upgraded

kept what I needed

[Joseph Dickerson]

Nimo956,

Just a couple of things that I'd like to add to the already comprehensive, and well thought out, advice above.

You will eventially want/need all the stuff on your list, but it's more important to start shooting ASAP and figure out as you proceed what's necessary and what's convenient. The two aren't always the same. I've lost track of the stuff I bought that I thought I had to have but didn't. That would be a whole thread on it's own.

If you use a regular backpack you can carry your lenses in food storage containers. The hard plastic ones. They come in many different sizes and are cheap. A cheap foam sleeping pad from the camping store will yield a lifetime supply of padding for lenses and camera.

Most of what we do/use can be found for cheap with a little creativity.

Get the camera, tripod, cable release, and film holders...everything else is fluff, until you know you have to have it.

JD

[Cletus]

I was gonna say to just read through the LF Homepage to get most of your answers, but it looks like Frank, Rick and some others have covered the basic needs to get started in generous and realistic detail.

I don't really have anything to add, other than the possible suggestion that Frank's and Rick's posts (articals) might could be successfully merged and migrated into the LF Homepage to serve as a guide for anyone asking these oft asked questions.

What's been said here so far amounts to a pretty good update, or a timely addition to "Getting Started in LF".

[nimo956]

Thank you all so much for your very detailed answers. They are very helpful indeed.

[chassis]

I agree with Frank's input.

I started with a cheap loupe, I might have paid $5 for it.

For a light meter, if you have an iPhone you can use the Lightmeter app. I have compared it many times to my Sekonic 758DR and it is very close. Close enough for black and white film. The app is free.

I use a dark beach or bath towel for a dark cloth. Free.

For a backpack I used something I had already, a JanSport day pack. In my opinion a pack like high school kids ur for book will work. Those can be found for $20-$80.

Filters aren't required, but I do like them. The basics for me with black and white are red, yellow and orange.

A lens wrench is helpful but not required. A fine screwdriver will work, but is risky because of scratches.

A lens wrap can be made with the appropriate size bath towel.

You need a cable release.

While Ansel's books are not required, they are very helpful. I have books two and three and refer to them all the time.

Having fun should be at the top of the priority list!

[John Kasaian]

My point being that if a neophyte invests in high ticket items before understanding what he actually needs or wants, as opposed to what he thinks he needs or wants, is a good way to waste a lot of money in a hurry (don't ask me how I know this!) The only way to know what is worth spending a little extra on is by going out and using your camera---what you really want or need will be evident readily enough. IMHO what the OP needs to do is go out and make photographs with whatever gear he has available and upgrade what needs to be upgraded in due time.

[Lenny Eiger]

I'm with everyone else on this one. Start with what you have.... I have some super equipment. But it took me 40 years to collect it. Is there any difference between my old Wista and my newer Ebony? In terms of shooting, absolutely not. Ok, there is this really cool level the Ebony has. But the Wista, with its paper bellows, still shoots just fine. The old Dagor on there is fine...

We all have times when we have a lot of cash and other times when we don't. When you have some cash, you can buy a more spiffy thing. In the meantime, you don't need filters, lens wrenches or books. It is very helpful to have a friend who knows how to develop film, and who knows how to swing and tilt and can explain this to you. However, even the swings and tilts are not absolutely necessary. Not to start out with, you can just close down to f45 and get almost all of it in focus. Grab a couple of holders, I like the plastic ones unless you have the time to refurbish the older ones, and go out shooting.

It's a grand adventure. I believe in the capability of a large format camera to teach you how to photograph. But you don't have to have everything to start.... and there's lots of help here - even if you might have to wade thru a raft of differing opinions on a particular subject.

If you want to look at books, look at other photographer's work.

And don't forget to have fun!

Lenny

[John NYC]

Regarding Frank's post #2, I'm consistently amazed at his dedication to helping new people out. Everything he said is great.

One comment I would like to emphasize... I agree that if doing B&W, just get one yellow filter and be done with it for a long while. Everything else (orange, green, red) has way more effect and can make your photos look pretty silly, imho. I do like a darkish red for goofy over-the-top fun now and then, but the more I shoot B&W the more I go bare or yellow filter and that is it.