Quite interesting. In Paula's and my workshops it is not unusual for participants to bring in prints made on Azo and prints made on enlarging paper. And it sometimes happens that the prints on enlarging paper have more appeal. They often have more "snap" to them. If that is what one prefers, then one should print on enlarging papers. If a long scale is more important, Azo would be the natural choice. Whether one way is more important for an individual than another way is a matter of personal preference, based, ultimately, on one's world view from one's deepest self. As I have said many times, there is no right and wrong in this.
Paula and I have also found that many who print on Azo make prints that we feel are too soft. Sure, they get a long scale, but often at the expense of richness. By selecting Grade 3 Azo for a negative that one would think should print on Grade 2 and then through use of a water bath it is often possible to move the print from 1/4 to 3/4 of a grade--the grade 3 can be made to print anywhere between a grade 2 1/4 to 2 3/4 (or 2 7/8 for that matter).
Tests like this are of necessity subjective, and that is the way they should be. But it would be interesting to know the experience level of those looking at the prints. In general, fine print conoisseurs, when they are looking at "straight" photographs made from a classical perspective (photographically speaking) prefer long scale prints to ones with "snap." Those coming to photography from the commercial world, and those who would not be considered knowledgeable and experienced lookers almost always prefer the snappier print.
We have hundreds of e-mails in our files stating that with the use of Azo the writers are finally able to make the prints they had wanted to make all along. And we only have a couple saying that they tried it, but prefer their enlarging paper, thank you.
I would love to see the comparison prints myself. I assume that both the Azo print and those made on enlarging paper can be loosely classed as "great" prints and are truly the best prints that can be made from those negatives using those materials. If you'd care to send them to me to take a look at, Don, I'll pay shipping both ways.
So many valid points raised here, one hiding underneath them all is: Do you know how to get where you are going?
Many among us (I’ll include myself here) don’t wish to do all the testing and refinement necessary to discover a particular set of materials best attributes. It puts holes in my wallet and schedule while putting nothing on my walls. If only we could have a look at what others are doing we might better decide how to go about things.
We work mostly alone, that is the shame of it. If we could all work with a few other photographers and share techniques in person (we need to see prints and how they were made) we would all grow a great deal I think. At very least we would be better informed about our choice of direction.
Once you settle in on a set of materials and really learn how to make them sing you can start making more articulate statements in photography. It is committing to that choice, that is hard.
Don brought up a good point about trying some new things on for size and the rest all seemed to note that to make an informed decision requires knowing a great deal about all that goes into a print and persons impressions of it.
I love this forum for all the information it provides and the encouragement. I have a current mode of working that I understand quite well and have much success wtih, but I am about to dive into a whole new set of materials in the hopes of improvement, hopes of expnading my vocabulary. I do this after long consideration and much input from this and other forums combined with a few sparks I made in initial trials. Do I know where I am going? I am not perfectly sure of my endpoint, but what sense of direction I have is partially derived from reading so much of what is given freely by people in this forum.
Good luck to all and keep on asking the tough questions…
Michael mentioned above that Azo prints sometimes appear softer than those that were enlarged. I like that look, but I think I'm in the minority. So many photographers are obsessed with contrast that they sometimes produce prints, which in my opinion, look almost garish they're so contrasty. I like the softer, quieter look of Azo. But one man's "soft" look is another's dreaded "flat" print.
Ben, I am one of your bretheren. I am accused of having a "softer print statement" than most. I am learning after 30 years to not worry about what others think. And I do love the Azo look.
Everyone clearly has the ability to shoot and print to whatever standard that they want to without mandates or standards and if that is what they feel is the optimal representation of their vision, have at it. That is your right in a free country.
But when we hear from folks that complain about the fact that they are having little or no success cannot selling their work at the local craft fare or on their web site and they cannot understand why, I ask myself what went wrong in the expectations/reality analysis.
While many hobbyists dabble with large format as a way to provide them with a way to utilize a bit of their excess time, others that have more lofty expectations are focused on reaching the top of the mountain and enjoying the journey along the way. But I wanted to make a singular point in a response to this post.
If this were a journey that one could take on their own, why would anyone in their right mind spend good money to do a workshop with any number of seasoned visionaries? One could easily conclude that the financial resources would be much better spent on materials or gasoline for the truck to get into the field on a regular basis. Reality check - folks spend thousands of dollars for the opportunity to work elbow to elbow with a committed professional that can literaly kick them in the ass to the nest level. In life or business, competition is something that we accept as the norm and true success (however loosely or rigidly defined) is not an entitlement.
The reality is that a majority of the people IMHO that have real large format aspirations are not really willing to commit the time and financial resources for one reason or another to truly segregate them from the "pack". And that is perfectly acceptable.
Me, I want to workshop till I drop and whatever it costs, I can assure you that it is money well spent.
The only really pertinent question therefore is "What is your objective and what are you willing to do to accomplish it?"
I am with you Michael. I take every opportunity to expose, develop and print a sheet of film. This is one passion that requires effort, patience and loads of practice. I wish I could get over my "one workshop equals 5 boxes of film" mentality so that I could finally make the trip to the USA.
Amen Francis. I am going to spend some quality time with Michael and Paula in October and am looking for my next venue. Montana in May and July, British Colimbia in June with Colorado blended in between.
If it is worth doing - do it with everything you got.
Don, I use a diffusion enlarger so I have no experience with the condensor types. When I got my 8 x 10, which I like alot better than my 4 x5, I decided that contact printing was the way to go. When I found out about AZO and M&P (Michael and Paula), I wanted to go to their workshop. Booked I had to wait and went last October. I like my enlargements but I do like the AZO alot. Now with a little more experience its like a package deal: I like the 8 x10, and with the vacuum frame printing is a breeze. Enlarging is a chore for me and I am processing more prints now than ever. Its about tradeoffs for me - that's why I do it!
For those thinking about a M&P workshop: nothing takes the place of seeing a long time master at work whatever their craft or trade. To boot they are nice folks and the workshop price is reasonable.
And I do love the Azo look.
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