View Camera Conference

[Sal Santamaura]

"Don’t hold this martyr complex over our heads...Why has this site not recovered to its former glory?"

André, I have detected nothing here that by any definition could be thought of as a 'martyr complex.' And, in my view, this forum *exceeded* its former glory within a few days of being reactivated late last year.

This site's guidelines are established by its operator. He will refine the definition of repetitive if he decides that's necessary, and he'll enforce the guidelines by deleting any posts he desires. That's his prerogative. Anyone who is unwilling to live with this situation is free to -- make that *encouraged to* -- stay away from this forum and enjoy the commercial endeavor that is photo.net.

[tim o'brien]

Well I be cornfused. It's QT Luong's forum, he can run it any way he wishes. But damn! It's a FREE event. Free. Freeeeee. It has information we all could want and use. Absolutely FREE. Free info. Free access to LF equipment. Free access to hundreds of others who do this better than me. FREE! How much is it? OH! zip, zero, zilch, nada, nix, FREE!

And if you don't like it, don't read the posts. I appreciate the update, cause it's only rolling around in the back of a mind that spends 70 hours a week writing code. And even with this update, I might still forget it.

Thanks Steve. Sorry it bothers the rest of you. I suspect it's because you're upset you can't be going there.

tim in san jose

[Michael A.Smith]

Seems to me that Steve's post is entirely appropriate. Obviously, as a participant in the conference, I know when it is, but if I were Joe LF user and could not get to this site every day, but maybe only once a week or even less, I would like to be reminded of what is going on in the world of LF photography, Steve's conference included.

From what I have read, for most people it takes seven repetitions of something (like Steve's announcement) for it to sink in. So, repetition, in and of itself, is not a bad thing.

I cannot understand why someone gets upset if Steve posts, or if I post, an activity like a conference or a workshop, or gives information on a product (like Azo) on which some money will be made.

Let's assume that Steve's LF conference is a good thing for LF photography. (His conference in Albuquerque in 2002 seemed to be that.) We all know LF photography is barely hanging on with the manufacturers. It is irrational to expect Steve to do things like hold his conference out of the goodness of his heart. I'm sure he is hoping to make some monry from this--but why? Not to get rich, but to be able to continue publishing his magazine's, which provide a benefit to all of us, just by the fact of their existence.

Likewise, though the money Paula and I make from Azo sales is shockingly little, we do make some and that is important to us. Why? Not so we can get rich from it, but so we can keep buying Azo to supply to the rest of the LF community.

There are really few places where LF users gather. This site is one of them. I really do not understand those who want to stiflle announcements that are of benefit to all, just because those who make those announcements may make a few (and I mean "a few" literally) bucks from it.

Would you rather have some not know about the conference or not know about Azo?

[J.L. Kennedy]

I agree that Steve's post is useful because I am one of those mentioned that can't visit the forum on a daily basis, sometimes going over a week without checking it out. However, it seems that this disagreement could be solved very easily by creating a another forum with a link at the top of this page, similiar to the one that says "Part of the Large Format Photography Home Page", that says "Commercial and semi-commercial announcements of general interest to LF photographer." Notwithstanding the initial programming task of setting this up (and I don't know how much effort that would require), it seems that there would be really no greater administrative effort on the part of QT Luong to simply transfer posts of this nature into the newly created forum. I am assuming he has to do a fair amount of deleting anyway when overzealous eBayers post links to their auctions and Midwest Camera Exchange types post lists of hundreds of their current offerings. In this way, those who don't mind (or actually desire) seeing blatently capitalistic posts (or even subtly capitalistic posts like this one) could click on the link. The rest of our esteemed colleagues of a more sensitive nature could simply breeze past the link, remaining unsullied by the unfortunate instances of capitalism that seem so persistent in our less that perfect world.

[Brian Ellis]

Michael Smith said: "Seems to me Steve's posting is entirely appropriate . . . I really don't understand those who want to stifle announcements that are of benefit to all."

Seems to me it's very strange that people are still telling us what they think is and isn't appropriate or what should and shouldn't be permitted here. As Richard stated at the outset of this discussion, the person who started and who runs the forum has announced what the rules are for conference, workshop, et al messages. He has also said, if I interpret his message here correctly, that Steve's fifth posting for his conference is inappropriate. That being the case, why are people still arguing the issue and why is anyone saying what they think is and isn't appropriate? That has already been decided by the only person whose opinions count. This isn't a usenet group where you can post anything you like whenever you feel like it.

So to me the situation seems very simple. Right or wrong, the rule relating to these kinds of messages exists so please respect if if you participate here. If you don't want to follow the rules don't participate. But please don't argue about it here any more If you wish to have the rules changed, send Q.T. a private e mail.

[steve simmons]

Same for his free articles - they are closely linked with his magazine - and are really a form of advertising for it - a billboard if you like. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

??????????????? A billboard is nothing but a sales pitch. Our free articles have substantive info that as been very helpful to many people for years. These articles have much more info than most answers in a discussion group and they are FREE!

It is a form of censorship to try and exclude these posts about the free articles. For some reason there are people who do not want others to know about this information. Since this forum, and others, have the opportunity to help people get into large format photography the only goal should be to make info available to people about lf photography. Personal issues should be put aside.

Now, lets put all persoanl issues aside and work together to make lf photography as viable an activity as possible.

steve simmons

[Paul Kierstead]

It is not like we are going to be swamped by LF conference announcements.

I don't want to see this site buried under spam, but I think steve should be given a break. For one thing, he contributes here regularly; for me, this makes it a much better "give and take" proposition. People who just come along and advertise and offer nothing else should be just given the boot. Beyond that I AM a LF newbie and quite frankly would never know about these things any other way.

QT is certainly free to run things his way (hey, he pays for it!) but non-counting vote is that those who participate in the community should be given a little leeway.

[Donal Taylor]

"??????????????? A billboard is nothing but a sales pitch. Our free articles have substantive info that as been very helpful to many people for years. These articles have much more info than most answers in a discussion group and they are FREE!

It is a form of censorship to try and exclude these posts about the free articles. For some reason there are people who do not want others to know about this information. Since this forum, and others, have the opportunity to help people get into large format photography the only goal should be to make info available to people about lf photography"

Presumably there would be no problem having the articles posted on the info section of this site then, if that were possible?

[Michael Kadillak]

If the moderators or those that control this forum want to delet these posts, let them do it. They are in charge and it is singularly their decision.

When this starts turning into an endless opinion diatribe, nobody is learning anything about large format photography and only ill feelings are manifested.

This circular discussion has prompted me to do what I recommend we all do -

Load some holders and get out of town in pursuit of some visual peace and tranquility .

Cheers!

[Dean Cookson]

FWIW, looking back in the "Workshops" archive, I only see two posts from Steve about this conference. Once back in January and this one. My knee tends to jerk pretty hard at the commercialization of non-commercial forums too, but 1 announcement and 1 reminder in the 3 months leading up to the conference seems reasonable.