Lenses "in barrel" - how do you typically use these?

[Cletus]

Okay, I know this question has come up many times (I'm sure) but searches don't seem to reveal anything too clearly that I can find here...

I'm looking at all these nice, reasonably priced Ronars and Artars and such in barrel, with no shutters. How do you normally deal with this? I've seen electric shutters on EBay and home-made guillotine jobbies, but it isn't obvious to me how these should be used / mounted? How would you get one of these thing behind your lens in a modern (or any) camera?

And what about all these beautiful antique lenses? I see photos of large cameras with big brass lenses hanging off the front, but what about the shutters? Surely everyone isn't carrying a "hat" around in their camera bags and guessing at 1/15" exposures all the time?

So what's the trick to this? I'd like to try one of these nice 24" Ronars or similar, but I'm at a loss as to how to time my exposures. Thanks for your input!

[vinny]

Lens cap, hat, or Packard. Sinar shutter if you've got the $$$.

[Gem Singer]

Graphic or Graflex camera with a focal plane shutter.

[Cletus]

Gem - what's that? I mean, I have an idea what a Graflex camera and a focal plane shutter is, but is that something the shutter of thw type that could be retrofitted (read:kludged) into another camera? Doesn't seem likely, is there something I'm missing here?

Im asking this because I'd like to be able to use lenses of this type, or any barrel lens, on my Sinar 8x10 - I guess I could start searching for a Sinar-kilobuck-shutter, but surely that's not what everyone does? I'm not even sure how those things work, exactly, but maybe looking at one would make it more clear. I know people sometimes have some sort of shutter arrangement mounted inside the camera, behind the lensboard, but I'm having trouble picturing how this would work. What, punch a hole in the bellows for a release cable???

Anyway, I guess I was just hoping to hear some consensus from the majority of those - and there seem to be plenty out there - who use barrel lenses on a regular basis. Surely it isn't common usage to throw a lenscap or hat over the lens as a means of consistent exposure? Or maybe so, it just doesn't seem too plausible to me...

[C. D. Keth]

The usual behind the lensboard arrangement that you see is called a packard shutter. They come in a bunch of sizes and have been made for a long time. They're pretty tough items. It's actuated pneumatically with an airbulb and rubber hose so you need airtube fittings either on the lensboard or on the front standard. These are usually brass and so are light tight. The trick with packards is that the shutter speed is determined by the firmness of your hand on that air bulb. It takes a little practice but you can get surprisingly precise with them. Edward Weston actually preferred the airbulb setup over mechanical shutters like his graflex had because, he wrote, he preferred to feel his exposures rather than calculate them. That's my paraphrasing.

[Cletus]

Christopher - that's more like it. I know what a Packard shutter is - or at least I know what one looks like! - and that seems to be the more likely solution for this. vinny mentioned this too. So does this shutter mount into some sort of assembly which then mounts to the back of the lensboard? Or is it like 'modern lenses and shutters', one Packard shutter for each lens? Does one just comb eBay and the classifieds looking for these shutters? Also, do they need to be specifically sized for the individual lens, the elements to be screwed into the shutter and what-not, or are they used more in a "universal" application? I'm trying to get straight on this and haven't been able to find much, like a diagram maybe, of how to use a shutter of this type.

I also have an enquiry in with SK Grimes, asking about mounting several specific Ronars, and whether they can mount directly into a Copal 3 shutter, but that's a pretty expensive option and also pretty limiting if I found another likely barrel lens - other than a Ronar- to try out.

[Gem Singer]

Phil,

In your original post, you didn't mention that you wanted to mount a barrel lens on your 8x10 Sinar camera.

You merely wanted to know how folks typically use barrel lenses on LF cameras.

I try to answer questions like I read them.

[jp]

Look for a deardorff recessed board for holding a packard shutter; it holds the lensboard in front of the shutter board; a sandwich. Such installations require the hose to come through to the front somehow. Many old lensboard have a crude hole bored through them for the airhose. It's physically separate from the lens, and a lens with a deep rear element won't work with this sort of setup.

I've seen Sinar shutters used, packard shutters used, check youtube for the "galli shutter" and guillotine shutter; probably packard shutters are on there too being demonstrated. If you've got a lens that will work natively on a Copal 3, that's a good thing. The Copal3 will get you flash sync, a variety of speeds, and fit a variety of cameras. Get a used copal3 shutter if you don't want to buy new. I wouldn't pay a ton of money to hire someone to adapt a lens to it unless you are very certain you will keep that.

I mostly use barrel lenses on my 4x5 speed graphic, for it's focal plane shutter. I do other methods for 8x10.

[William Whitaker]

Im asking this because I'd like to be able to use lenses of this type, or any barrel lens, on my Sinar 8x10 - I guess I could start searching for a Sinar-kilobuck-shutter, but surely that's not what everyone does?...

If you're using a Sinar camera, get a Sinar shutter. No, they're not cheap initially. But in the long run they're economical because you can use them with almost any lens. They're designed to work with Sinar cameras without requiring any modifications.

[Merg Ross]

I have a Sinar shutter mounted to my Calumet 8x10, and a Luc on an Agfa 8x10, modified for behind the lens. I also have a Luc that I front mount on barrel lenses for the 4x5. A Packard is a good choice for barrel lenses, if critical exposure times are not paramount; for accuracy, I would recommend the Sinar shutter; very accurate and cost effective, depending on how much 8x10 film you plan to shoot.