Goerz American corporate history more confusing that I'd thought

[Jim Galli]

I can add to the fun. We are still using legacy tracking mounts made by Contraves of Switzerland out where I work. They have an optical section made by Kern. Drive mechanisms made in part with Kollmorgen products (drive motors). So, somewhere I've got old crates with labels on them that have Contraves, Kollmorgen, Goerz, all mixed up together happily. But I repeat, the optics in ours are the product of Kern, who also at one point had a connection to Goerz via Schneider. Sounds like an orgy. Everybody was in bed together in that era, or so it seems. Who's y'ur daddy?

The lenses on the tracking mounts are + or - 1500 mm focus. We aren't NASA....but we ARE in the desert and drive vehicles with guvvy plates.

[Cheshire]

Sorry to be so late to this thread, but thought I could help a bit since I worked at Goerz in Pittsburgh during 1970.

Goerz had two very different businesses. First, their lines of view and process camera lenses, most of which in 1970 were being manufactured in Mineola, LI, NY. Second, in Pittsburgh they made mainly large rate tables, i.e. test equipment for inertial guidance systems. In this, Contraves was a local competitor. I personally was working with others in Pittsburgh at Goerz on a project for NASA, the Lunar Geological Exploration Camera. This was a small, handheld camera for use by the astronauts on the lunar surface that included a pair of 35mm lenses for recording a stereo view plus a 135mm telephoto between the two 35mm lenses for details of the scenes. All shutters fired simultaneously. The cameras were completed and awaiting final acceptance testing when the project was cancelled. I never found out the reason for the cancellation. After the cancellation, I was transferred to one of the other Kollmorgen subsidiaries: Macbeth, of densitometer, color measurement, and color viewing hood fame.

Some time after I was transferred the Goerz lens business was sold to Schneider Optics. No one familiar with the quality of the Goerz lenses was especially happy about this. While Schneider always made good lenses, the factor that made Goerz lenses so superior was the semi-custom nature of their manufacturing. At Goerz, as glass elements were assembled, they were put on a bench and adjusted for the optimum separation of the elements. Then the lens barrel would be machined to exactly match those two specific pieces of glass. The entire lens was built up this way. Very time consuming and expensive. At one point Kern from Switzerland said that they could build lenses using the Goerz design that would have the same or better quality by using mass production and tighter tolerances. So, Goerz sent them one of their designs and Kern made a small batch of lenses to show what tighter tolerances and mass production could do. When the lenses arrived at Goerz, not one of the Kern lenses passed the Georz QC requirements.

Interestingly, at Goerz in 1970 the EVP had left Hungry after the Revolution of 1956. He was very partial to his countrymen. Consequently, the large machine shop we had was filled almost exclusively with Hungarian immigrants. I have never seen a group argue as much as these guys did. I was about 23 at the time and thought it the most dysfunctional place I had ever seen. It took me months to realize that the arguments were a form on entertainment for these guys. No one took any of the arguments seriously. But they were in fact some of the nicest, most caring guys I've yet to meet ... they just never made it obvious. If I asked for a part to be fabricated within a week, they would spend the next 30 minutes telling me why it would take them at least three weeks to get it to me. Then after an argument that they all thoroughly enjoyed, the would go make the part and have it sitting on my desk by the next morning. One time upon arriving a work I found that a critical part on my Ducati motorcycle had broken I was was lucky to not have killed myself on the way to work. The closest Ducati dealer was about 30 miles away and I now had no transportation. So, one of the mechanical engineers came out and sketched up a drawing of what would replace the part and gave it to the Hungarian machinists. By mid-afternoon they had fabricated a new part for me out of some super-quality stainless that was scrap from another project .... and no one would even let me buy them a coke as a thank you.

So, in case you haven't figured it out by now, I thought that Goerz in 1970 made some pretty spectacular products and had a staff of great people. It was one of the best jobs I ever had, I work with some great people, and I was given responsibilities far in excess of what my age would have normally suggested.

Sorry I can't provide greater information about specific lenses, but if anyone wants more info about the company in those days, I'll be glad to add whatever I can.

[goamules]

What wonderful stories about your times at Goerz. Thanks for telling us some, and tell more!

[Fotoguy20d]

back non the late 80s I worked for an aerospace company whe we had several of their rate tables. fast forward to the more recent present and I have Goerz lenses from the 1890s to the 1950s. Bu, never made the connection until seeing this thread. Thanks for sharing the history and stories.

Dan

[John Kasaian]

This is all very cool information! Sorry I don't have anything to add other than the Goerz lens I do have are very fine and I enjoy them. Knowing more of the history of the company adds a lot to that enjoyment!

[Jim Galli]

Don't you love it when the guy who actually does know the story walks into the room! Thanks Cheshire.

[civich]

Amen to that! A shining light on the tower of we-babel

Don't you love it when the guy who actually does know the story walks into the room! Thanks Cheshire.

[David A. Goldfarb]

461 Doughty Blvd, Inwood, L.I.--today home to Laundrylux, a supplier of Wascomat laundry machines for coin-operated laundromats.

[E. von Hoegh]

Sorry to be so late to this thread, but thought I could help a bit since I worked at Goerz in Pittsburgh during 1970.

Goerz had two very different businesses. First, their lines of view and process camera lenses, most of which in 1970 were being manufactured in Mineola, LI, NY. Second, in Pittsburgh they made mainly large rate tables, i.e. test equipment for inertial guidance systems. In this, Contraves was a local competitor. I personally was working with others in Pittsburgh at Goerz on a project for NASA, the Lunar Geological Exploration Camera. This was a small, handheld camera for use by the astronauts on the lunar surface that included a pair of 35mm lenses for recording a stereo view plus a 135mm telephoto between the two 35mm lenses for details of the scenes. All shutters fired simultaneously. The cameras were completed and awaiting final acceptance testing when the project was cancelled. I never found out the reason for the cancellation. After the cancellation, I was transferred to one of the other Kollmorgen subsidiaries: Macbeth, of densitometer, color measurement, and color viewing hood fame.

Some time after I was transferred the Goerz lens business was sold to Schneider Optics. No one familiar with the quality of the Goerz lenses was especially happy about this. While Schneider always made good lenses, the factor that made Goerz lenses so superior was the semi-custom nature of their manufacturing. At Goerz, as glass elements were assembled, they were put on a bench and adjusted for the optimum separation of the elements. Then the lens barrel would be machined to exactly match those two specific pieces of glass. The entire lens was built up this way. Very time consuming and expensive. At one point Kern from Switzerland said that they could build lenses using the Goerz design that would have the same or better quality by using mass production and tighter tolerances. So, Goerz sent them one of their designs and Kern made a small batch of lenses to show what tighter tolerances and mass production could do. When the lenses arrived at Goerz, not one of the Kern lenses passed the Georz QC requirements.

Interestingly, at Goerz in 1970 the EVP had left Hungry after the Revolution of 1956. He was very partial to his countrymen. Consequently, the large machine shop we had was filled almost exclusively with Hungarian immigrants. I have never seen a group argue as much as these guys did. I was about 23 at the time and thought it the most dysfunctional place I had ever seen. It took me months to realize that the arguments were a form on entertainment for these guys. No one took any of the arguments seriously. But they were in fact some of the nicest, most caring guys I've yet to meet ... they just never made it obvious. If I asked for a part to be fabricated within a week, they would spend the next 30 minutes telling me why it would take them at least three weeks to get it to me. Then after an argument that they all thoroughly enjoyed, the would go make the part and have it sitting on my desk by the next morning. One time upon arriving a work I found that a critical part on my Ducati motorcycle had broken I was was lucky to not have killed myself on the way to work. The closest Ducati dealer was about 30 miles away and I now had no transportation. So, one of the mechanical engineers came out and sketched up a drawing of what would replace the part and gave it to the Hungarian machinists. By mid-afternoon they had fabricated a new part for me out of some super-quality stainless that was scrap from another project .... and no one would even let me buy them a coke as a thank you.

So, in case you haven't figured it out by now, I thought that Goerz in 1970 made some pretty spectacular products and had a staff of great people. It was one of the best jobs I ever had, I work with some great people, and I was given responsibilities far in excess of what my age would have normally suggested.

Sorry I can't provide greater information about specific lenses, but if anyone wants more info about the company in those days, I'll be glad to add whatever I can.

http://www.acutronic.com/fileadmin/c..._ACUTRONIC.pdf If this is accurate, Contraves owned this division of Goerz in the late 60s or 1970.

[Bernice Loui]

Thank you for sharing this..

Many of the Goerz lenses in the pile are in barrel from the 1960's to maybe early 1970's. The machine work and overall performance of these lenses are simply excellent by any standard. There are also a few Schneider-Goerz lenses made with aluminum barrel which are not as nicely made as the previous brass or brass alloy barrel lenses.

No surprise to hear each lens was individually set-up and finished. There was a time when I had several of the same focal length Goerz lens and each had a different length barrel or shutter mounting as measured by micrometer. This level of craft is what appears to give Goerz lenses from that era that extra bit of special image personality that makes me very fond of Goerz lenses form that era.



Curious question..

Goerz made a number of speciality lenses for the US military like the Magnar ( optimized at f8 for 2X enlargement of aero-recon film), Goerz Hycon (Biogon under contract ?) and others. Are there any stories that can be told about these special lenses ?


Bernice

Sorry to be so late to this thread, but thought I could help a bit since I worked at Goerz in Pittsburgh during 1970.

Goerz had two very different businesses. First, their lines of view and process camera lenses, most of which in 1970 were being manufactured in Mineola, LI, NY. Second, in Pittsburgh they made mainly large rate tables, i.e. test equipment for inertial guidance systems. In this, Contraves was a local competitor. I personally was working with others in Pittsburgh at Goerz on a project for NASA, the Lunar Geological Exploration Camera. This was a small, handheld camera for use by the astronauts on the lunar surface that included a pair of 35mm lenses for recording a stereo view plus a 135mm telephoto between the two 35mm lenses for details of the scenes. All shutters fired simultaneously. The cameras were completed and awaiting final acceptance testing when the project was cancelled. I never found out the reason for the cancellation. After the cancellation, I was transferred to one of the other Kollmorgen subsidiaries: Macbeth, of densitometer, color measurement, and color viewing hood fame.

Some time after I was transferred the Goerz lens business was sold to Schneider Optics. No one familiar with the quality of the Goerz lenses was especially happy about this. While Schneider always made good lenses, the factor that made Goerz lenses so superior was the semi-custom nature of their manufacturing. At Goerz, as glass elements were assembled, they were put on a bench and adjusted for the optimum separation of the elements. Then the lens barrel would be machined to exactly match those two specific pieces of glass. The entire lens was built up this way. Very time consuming and expensive. At one point Kern from Switzerland said that they could build lenses using the Goerz design that would have the same or better quality by using mass production and tighter tolerances. So, Goerz sent them one of their designs and Kern made a small batch of lenses to show what tighter tolerances and mass production could do. When the lenses arrived at Goerz, not one of the Kern lenses passed the Georz QC requirements.

Interestingly, at Goerz in 1970 the EVP had left Hungry after the Revolution of 1956. He was very partial to his countrymen. Consequently, the large machine shop we had was filled almost exclusively with Hungarian immigrants. I have never seen a group argue as much as these guys did. I was about 23 at the time and thought it the most dysfunctional place I had ever seen. It took me months to realize that the arguments were a form on entertainment for these guys. No one took any of the arguments seriously. But they were in fact some of the nicest, most caring guys I've yet to meet ... they just never made it obvious. If I asked for a part to be fabricated within a week, they would spend the next 30 minutes telling me why it would take them at least three weeks to get it to me. Then after an argument that they all thoroughly enjoyed, the would go make the part and have it sitting on my desk by the next morning. One time upon arriving a work I found that a critical part on my Ducati motorcycle had broken I was was lucky to not have killed myself on the way to work. The closest Ducati dealer was about 30 miles away and I now had no transportation. So, one of the mechanical engineers came out and sketched up a drawing of what would replace the part and gave it to the Hungarian machinists. By mid-afternoon they had fabricated a new part for me out of some super-quality stainless that was scrap from another project .... and no one would even let me buy them a coke as a thank you.

So, in case you haven't figured it out by now, I thought that Goerz in 1970 made some pretty spectacular products and had a staff of great people. It was one of the best jobs I ever had, I work with some great people, and I was given responsibilities far in excess of what my age would have normally suggested.

Sorry I can't provide greater information about specific lenses, but if anyone wants more info about the company in those days, I'll be glad to add whatever I can.