There seem to be alot of East German CZJ tessars on the market lately. These are barrel lenses and many will fit into a Copal 3 shutter. The lenses are very inexpensive and seem to be in excellent condition, but even a use Copel 3 shutter is pricey. How sharp are these lenses and would it be worth picking one up for $50-100 and then trying to find a cheap Copal 3? The one I have my eye on is a 180mm f/4.5
How sure are you that the lens is a direct fit to a Copal 3? If it is a direct fit, I'd say dig up a used shutter and give it a go. I've had a couple of CZJ lenses that were quite nice - in particular, a 165mm f/4.5 Tessar comes to mind.
If the lens isn't a direct fit (and adapters would have to be machined), I think you'd be better off finding something else.
OK, now for the disclaimer... My CZJ lenses were older, pre-WWII uncoated optics that were in dial-set Compur shutters. They were of oddball sizes that didn't fit modern, flash-sync'd shutters. Regardless, they made nice images if care was taken to guard against flare.
I have two Docter Apo Germinar lenses. Docter bought the Zeiss Jena works some 15 years ago and then sold it to Rodenstock. Both of these are excellent lenses, easily the equal of their Schneider or Rodenstock counterparts.
Be careful though in terms of the ability to mount them easily in shutter. Most of the late model Jena/Docter lenses came both mounted and unmounted and the unmounted versions may not be quite so simple to mount.
The expert on this is Arne Croell who will hopefully read this thread and chime in. Alternatively, see his comprehensive articles on these lenses in recent issues of View Camera.
To give you a benchmark a late model Jena or Docter 360 Apo Germinar lens in a Copal #3 shutter will generally bring $600 or more on the used market and when the last ones sold new a few years ago they were going for $1000.
This is definately a post war lens; serial number 9757.
http://www.cupog.com/foto/Tessar18008H.jpg
Edward,
If no one else jumps in with the detailed info from the View Camera article I will look it up later today. In the meantime you may want to email Arne ... arne.croell@inemet.tu-freiberg.de ... tht will get you a definitive answer. IMHO I am not usre it would be worth mounting a 180 mm unless you get a very good deal on a shutter. You should be able to find a plethora of fine Schneider, Rodenstock, Nikon and Fuji 180 f5.6 lenses already in shutter in the USD 450-475 price range. Be on the lookout for Caltar II-S MC (Schneider Symmar S MC) or Caltar II-N (Rodenstock Sironar N) lenses which are always a bit cheaper.
If Cupog is the seller I wouldn't count on it ending cheap. He usually gets fairly good prices. Once you add in the price of a new shutter won't you be pretty close to the price of a new lens in the 150-210mm range? Brand new lens. Brand new shutter. No worries about them fitting together.
Also aren't the real cheap Zeiss Jena lenses copier lenses with no apertures?
It sounds like it won't be worth the hassle so I will stop bidding. Something else will come along later that won't be as disagreeable. Sometimes I just bid because I am bored.
First, this is a very late model from the 1980's according to the serial number. The design is a comparatively new one, from 1948 ( a lot of the larger Tessars use the 1929 design). Anyway, its a good lens, and the coating, although single, should be good too given the late manufacturing date. However, this would be the first of the postwar barrel Tessars that I know of that would directly fit a shutter without some machining required. I have not personally seen the 180mm, but I have seen the 75, 135, 210, and 300mm f/4.5 in barrel, as well as the 210 and 250mm f/3.5 and the 135 and 210 f/6.3 in barrel, and NONE of them is a direct shutter fit, even those where shuttered versions existed in parallel (e.g. the 210mm f/6.3 was available in Compur 1, and the 210mm f/4.5 was available in Prestor 3 during GDR times and in Copal 3 from Docter Optic - the latter 2 are not interchangeable though). The best and cheapest bet may be to mount the barrel in front of a Copal 3, which would only require one adapter ring. I'd ask the seller if he can measure the threads for you, before buying.
Thankyou for the input Arne. Apparently the 180mm was available in a Copal 3 or a barrel and it seems the two are NOT interchangable. The rear thread is 46mm so it should be possible to mount the lens in front of a Copal 3 with an adapter ring. I think I will hold out for a 210mm G-Claron.
Edward, yes, all of the late f/4.5 Tessars were available in Copals (size 1 up to 135mm, size 3 from 180 to 360mm - for the 300 and 360mm the maximum aperture was reduced by the shutter though) but ONLY from Docter Optic, after the German reunification, never from Zeiss Jena. Jena had a few Tessars in shutter in the 1950's and 1960's. They are compatible only if they came in Compur. The GDR-made Prestor shutters had different cell spacings and partially different threads, even though the shutter numbers were the same (I found that out the hard way). And the barrel versions always have a very different mount, even from Docter Optic. The same holds for the Apo-Germinars, btw.
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