applying a mask up to the horizon line?

[cabbiinc]

You could use a gradient on the mask rather than a defined line. As the horizon stretches away from the viewer the color and clarity changes naturally anyways, why not just expand on that.

[buggz]

Hmm, I did not get this from reading all the posts.
Bad day, or something?

Never mind. My future policy will be to not post in a thread that Lenny posts in. He always wants everything to be a contest, and I'm tired of it.

[Lenny Eiger]

Never mind. My future policy will be to not post in a thread that Lenny posts in. He always wants everything to be a contest, and I'm tired of it.

Peter,
It's true that I did not imagine (at least initially) you had this experience. However, it's not a contest. I just disagreed with you. I hope you notice in the second post I made that I explained my reasons without any thought of more or less experience. If there was any annoyance, it was writing a long piece about how to do this "correctly", from a pro's perspective, then having people say things like just use the magic wand, which I think is ridiculous. I chose to respond to you because you were there and I didn't want to start going off on other people.

If one can actually use a pen tool well, it can be very useful. I do this every day, its not my favorite tool, but I have spent a lot of time with it. I still think I could enhance your like of the tablet. But maybe not. I do believe we can always learn things from each other. And I'm sorry if I pissed you off...

I think forums are difficult in that one rarely knows the experience of the person who's speaking. They could be experienced professionals or rank beginners, and everything in between.

Lenny

[Peter De Smidt]

Imo, when someone asks for advice, one should simply state what they would do and why. If someone else posts a different technique, one you don't like for some reason, then it behooves you to be careful. You could let the poster find out which way they prefer by actually trying the various techniques, especially with Photoshop, as there is usually a huge number of ways to accomplish something. Or you could decide to criticize someone else's suggestion. If so, though, it pays to simply state the pluses and minuses of the various approaches, since if your not careful, the thread will become an off-topic pissing match which benefits no one. This is especially the case when you know that the other person is an imaging professional.

For instance, Lenny likes his Wacom. That's great, and I know a lot of pros who love theirs. I too am a professional (as Lenny knows) and have worked in commercial post-production studios on work for clients such as Kohler, Gulfstream, Kohls, Harley-Davidson.... Yes, I even work with a fellow that Industrial Light and Magic uses as a digital imaging consultant. I've used a Wacom tablet for years, including with custom brushes, touch sensitivity.... My Wacom died about a year ago, and I find that I prefer working with a mouse. I certainly do so for such a simple task as making a basic mask. As such, my opinion about a using a Wacom is an informed one, but it's not one that I insist that Lenny share, nor is their any need for me to imply that Lenny doesn't really know how to use a mouse. I expect that he does. In any case you do not need to buy an expensive Wacom tablet to make a simple mask, as I'm sure Lenny will agree with.

Name-dropping, though, does nothing good. First, it doesn't follow that the person with the best resume is always right, as people with the most impressive credentials sometimes make poor suggestions. Everyone makes mistakes. Second, when there are many ways to accomplish something, the matter often resolves into nothing more than preference. Third, it's an unnecessary appeal to authority, one which most people will not be in a position to make a great judgment on. I mentioned a way that many newbies don't know about, and it's one that is very useful to know. In the post-production departments that I've worked in, it's the one that's used the most. Is it the only way or the best way in every circumstance? No!

Basically I object to the 'If you only knew what you were doing, then you would agree with me!' attitude.

Lenny did write a much more thorough response than I did. I was in a hurry and only trying to be helpful.


I appreciate Lenny's latest post.

[bob carnie]

First thing I did when looking at this image was open up the color range and tried to separate the horizon line.. not so simple as there was not a clear separation I was looking for.


I have enough PS work right now that my business partner would kill me if he saw me working on Vinnys file.

this one is tough because of the clearly defined line, probably a combinations of a few apporaches would be workable... I think the gradient tool along with colour range and even some channel blending would be some of the options..

Possibly a monster high radius sharpening to create a division line and then paint out either top or bottom to make mask.

or the Blend if Tool would most certainly work in this situation...

Vinny try a bunch of things and you will certainly get there..

I do not use a Wacom Tablet, but prefer the mouse... we all come at this differently.

[Brian Ellis]

First, I'd suggest forgetting the pen tool for now. Peter is right, it's a handy tool but it isn't easy to use and you said you're at a third grade level. I'd also forget the Wacom tablet at least for now. I have one, it's nice but nowhere close to necessary for what you want to do. An easy and effective way to do what you want to do without having to make a selection and deal with selection lines, feathering, etc. is as follows:

Make a duplicate of the Background layer (Ctrl/J) so you don't lose your original image (or just make a duplicate of your original and then work on the dupe). After doing this you'll have two layers, your Background layer and the duplicate layer which will be labelled "Layer 1." That layer will be colored blue and will be the active layer on which you'll work.

With Layer 1 active adjust the sky to make it look like you want it to look without worrying about or paying any attention to what that's doing to the water. You could adjust the sky using a curves adjustment layer, a levels adjustment layer or any number of different ways to adjust contrast, tone, and saturation in Photoshop. I'll assume for now that you used a Curves adjustment layer. That will add a third layer with a white box (the mask) in it.

You'll now have the sky the way you want it. The water will probably look awful but don't worry about it for now. Invert the mask by clicking on the word Channels in the Layer/Channels panel and then clicking on the word "Invert" in that same panel. This will change the mask from white to black. Your image will now revert to the way it looked before you adjusted the sky.

Now click on the brush tool in the tool box, make sure the opacity is set to 100% (at the top of the screen opposite the word "Opacity") and that your brush is soft. Paint over the sky to bring back the adjustments you made with curves, levels, or whatever other way you made the sky look like you wanted it to look. You don't need to make a selection, just don't paint below the horizon line. You also probably don't need to paint right up to the horizon line, you probably can leave a little of the original sky between the horizon and the portions of the sky you changed.

You'll now have an image with the sky the way you want it and the water foreground as it was in the original image. To change the foreground first flatten the image (just to keep things simple, as you advance in Photoshop you'll probably want to keep all your adjustment layers) by clicking on the word Layer at the top of your screen, scroll down to "Flatten Image," and click on it). Now work on the foreground water without worrying about what that's doing to the sky. When you have it the way you want it just repeat the above steps (i.e. add an inverted layer mask etc.).

There are literally 10, 15, probably more ways to change one part of an image in Photoshop independently from other parts. But I like this way for your image because it eliminates the need to make a selection and then deal with adjusting the edges of the selection and removing the selection lines.

I use inverted layer masks and adjustments with almost every photograph I edit in Photoshop so it's become second nature to me. If I've left out any steps or if you aren't clear on anything send me a PM and I'll explain further. But using inverted layer masks is one of the easiest and most effective ways I know of to alter one portion of an image without changing other portions. So if you learn to do it with this image you'll have something you can use constantly in the future.

[vinny]

Thanks brian.
I took a one on one all day photoshop workshop last year but it was right before we had our second child and moved across the country. In short, I didn't get the chance to practice ANY of what I learned. I have been doing basic adjustments with layers but nothing very complicated and your step by step approach is clearer to me than much of the other's who've forgot I'm an idiot. What I don't like about photoshop is the "15 ways" to to everything. In the darkroom where I do my b+w work, it's more nuts n bolts and maybe two ways is enough.

[bob carnie]

Vinny , thats exactly what's so great about PS , its huge... I am going on a 4 day Bootcamp on Cs6 next month in Atlanta, I hope to learn a lot I forgot and all the things I did not think were important when I started this learning curve.

Brian describes a pretty good workflow.

[Brian Ellis]

Thanks brian.
I took a one on one all day photoshop workshop last year but it was right before we had our second child and moved across the country. In short, I didn't get the chance to practice ANY of what I learned. I have been doing basic adjustments with layers but nothing very complicated and your step by step approach is clearer to me than much of the other's who've forgot I'm an idiot. What I don't like about photoshop is the "15 ways" to to everything. In the darkroom where I do my b+w work, it's more nuts n bolts and maybe two ways is enough.

Thanks Vinny. I agree about the "15 ways to do everything" aspect of Photoshop. It's really nice to have all those options if and when one becomes a Photoshop expert but it can drive you crazy at first. I remember taking Photoshop workshops where the instructor would go on at length about how do something I wanted to do. I'd frantically take detailed notes, get it all down on paper, and then the instructor would say "but a better way to do it is . . . . " For me, and perhaps for you, I just wanted to learn one good way to do something and figured I'd worry about "fastest," "easiest," "best" later.

[Peter De Smidt]

Make sure that when you make apply the correction you check the transition area at 100% view or greater. You want to catch any mistakes in your mask or selection early on. One thing that helps is to make your tonal adjustment a little more extreme than you need. That'll make problem areas easier to see. You can then either adjust the curve or lower the opacity of that layer in the layer's panel.