Novice 4x5 question

[Brian Ellis]

My point, of course, wasn't the specific price of any particular book, my point was spending any amount of money on a book that has a limited use, and thereafter will collect dust, if the book can be checked out of the library. The $30-$40 price was a generality. I thought the basic point was pretty obvious and I didn't realize someone would think I was actually quoting the price range of every single gook on large format photography. Obviously I was wrong, somebody did. But since we're speaking of correcting mistakes, it doesn't take everyone two hours to make a round trip to the library. I make it in about ten minutes each way and I'm sure there are others who don't live an hour away.

[steve simmons]

from Brian Ellis

My point, of course, wasn't the specific price of any particular book, my point was spending any amount of money on a book that has a limited use, and thereafter will collect dust, if the book can be checked out of the library. The $30-$40 price was a generality.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Not true. You stated that the books other than Stroebel cost between 30 and 40 dollars. ("So rather than spending $30 or $40 on any book other than Stroebel " is a direct quote)You were wrong and mislead people. Using the View Camera generally costs between 20 and 25 and probably less than this at Amazon.com. If you are going to come on and offer info to beginners lets make the info accurate. I am also surprised that you would consider a book to help people get started in lf to be of limited use. I have had many notes from people how the book has been helpful as a reference book for several years.

steve simmons

steve simmons

[Brian Ellis]

You actually think that when I said "rather than spending $30 or $40 on any book other than Stroebel" I was claiming that all large format books cost between $30 and $40? Steve, I was making a point - don't spend money on something that won't be useful once you've learned the basics and that can be obtained from a library. The $30 or $40 number was illustrative of the point, not a statement that all large format books cost between $30 and $40. You seem to be the only one who doesn't understand that. And while you're worrying about accuracy, take a look at your statement about two hour round trips to the library.

This has historically been a very nice, pleasant group filled mostly with knowledgeable people who don't have outsized egos and who have a genuine interest in large format photography. In the seven or eight years I've been participating here there have been very few petty arguments of the type you've created here. You're entitled to your opinions about the quality of your book and if you want to advertise its low price that's o.k. too. But please don't try to twist my statement into something it clearly was not and don't accuse me of misleading anyone.

[steve simmons]

Brian

What you said is what you said. I am willing to bet that you are aware tha Using the View Camera does not cost between 30 and 40 dollars yet you omitted that info from your comment. And, not everyone lives so close to a library that they can get to one in 10 minutes as you claim you can do.

I am only asking that if you make general statements about books other than Stroebel's that you make sure you indicate that some books are not in that price range. Otherwise you are giving misleading info. I'd like to believe that you are concerned about putting out complete and accurate info rather than incomplete and misleading statements. When I realized that you left out some importnat info I simply filled in the blanks.

Now people know there are a variety of choices. This has to be more helpful to them.

steve simmons

[John Cook]

Hi Greg,

I’d just like to make three simple points which you, as a “Novice” may not yet fully appreciate:

(1) Speaking very generally, large format film cameras are awkward to work with, but still tend to produce more detailed images than most affordable digital cameras. The quality gap is closing fast and prices are dropping even faster. It’s probably too late to make a big commercial investment in traditional film-based equipment, but too soon to put big money into digital which with wildly unstable technical advances will be obsolete before you finish paying for it. It’s best to sit tight on camera equipment for a while longer.

(2) The purpose of a camera, film or digital, is merely to record an image of the light striking your subject and being reflected off from it. In addition to quantity, light more importantly has quality and character. Subject beautification, contrary to ubiquitous advertising claims, is definitely not a camera function. A portrait sitter does not appear better looking when shot through a more expensive lens.

Chances are, if your pictures stink and require extensive retouching, it has nothing to do with the camera. The fault is almost certainly crummy lighting. Many years ago, an instructor and old friend of mine, the late Phil Cohen, gave me some wise advice. He said, “My son, when you get ready to start a studio, if you have only a thousand dollars, buy a hundred-dollar camera and nine-hundred-dollars’-worth of lighting equipment. Once the product is properly lighted, any fool with a snapshot camera can make an award-winning image of it.”

When I left art school I assisted one of the great product photographers in Hollywood. We would spend a very long day carefully arranging, propping and lighting the client’s product. Late in the evening when everyone was at long last finally satisfied with how everything looked, someone would get behind the camera and take a picture of what we had so painstakingly accomplished. Get your concentration out of the viewfinder and onto the tabletop set.

My second tidbit of advice is therefore to forget about your camera equipment and put your money into a few thousand-dollars’-worth of lighting equipment. And learn to use it. A few umbrellas, soft boxes, fresnel lenses and reflectors will turn your sow’s ear into a silk purse, worthy of hanging on a museum wall.

(3) Lastly, be careful of taking advice from strangers. Especially us old online amateur photographers. Many of us, like computer hackers, busy ourselves with tweaking another third-stop of speed out of a film/developer combination or another quarter-inch depth-of-field out of an old lens which has been out of manufacture for a hundred years. In so doing, we tend to make large format photography appear much more difficult and mystical than it really is. In short, photography is not anywhere near as complicated as our chatter would indicate. Don’t let us frighten you away.

[Greg Windle]

I wanted to thank everyone that contributed advice to my questions/comments.

As a multimedia programmer, I am a member of about 6 or 7 different internet forums. This forum has provided me with the most detailed, informative and helpful responses to my questions I have ever experienced.

Once again -- Thanks a bunch!

Greg

[Brian Ellis]

"I am willing to bet that you are aware that Using the View Camera does not cost between $30 and $40 yet you omitted that info from your comment."

You aren't serious, right? You don't actually think your book is of such importance that I walk around keeping its price in my head do you? Good grief, I don't even own the book, how would I know (and why would I care?) what it cost? And once again - the $30- 40 dollar amounts were illustrative of a point, I didn't purport to be providing a price list of any kind. If I say that someone shouldn't buy any car except a Mercedes for $60,000 or $70,000 I don't think anyone, except you I guess, would think I was saying all cars cost $60,000 or $70,000.

And of course I didn't say that everyone lives within ten minutes of a library.

In re-reading this thread I'm actually ashamed that I've even participated in in such an inane, not to mention juvenile, exchange of messages. It provided nothing of value to the person who asked the original question and involves the most petty B.S. imaginable. Your book costs $20 or $25, I referred to not paying $30 or $40 for "books" and you not only think the minor dolar difference is a big deal, you tell me I go around keeping the price of your book in my head but intentionally didn't provide the price. And I actually let myself get sucked into spending time responding to such paranoia.

[steve simmons]

So rather than spending $30 or $40 on any book other than Stroebel>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

This is a quote from your posting. If you want to provide incrrect info I will be happy to correct the record. I am not surprised that you won't acknowledge your error. My goal is simply to provide correct info which is the most helpful to the people asking questions. If you did not know the price of my book you should have checked rather than make a blanket and incorrect comment.

steve simmons www.viewcamera.com