Recommendation for a good starter 4x5?

[MichaelS]

Hi - I've been a fairly serious 35mm practitioner for most of my life but have been unhappy with the negative/print quality for the past few years. I've been thinking about "jumping in" and getting a 4x5 for a few years now but have had too many concerns RE: price and my ability to actually print the negatives, but the bug has bitten me again, and am hoping to get any advice for a good quality "starter" 4x5 camera. I'm thinking Wista, but am really looking for suggestions. Please feel free to also recommend lenses, other equipt., places to purchase, etc. Any advice would be really appreciated!

Thanks!

[Ken Lee]

What subjects do you intend to photograph ?

Do you generally use short lenses ? Long lenses ? Close work ? Dim light ?

Do you need something small/light, or do you plan to stay in the studio, or work mainly indoors ?

Why these questions ? Because cameras that can accomodate every kind of subject, tend to be heavy, or large. Lighter and more portable cameras generally have more limited movements, bellows extension, etc. Most cameras represent a compromise of one sort or another.

As a rule of thumb, lenses for 4x5 are 3x the length of 35mm lenses: a normal lens is ~150mm.

Unlike the overall trend with 35mm and digital cameras, most lenses for Large Format have no color fringing, barrel/pincushion distortion, etc. Even an uncoated lens from the 1930's can give images of wonderful quality, all the way out to the edges of coverage.

[Alan Gales]

Most people do not keep the first large format camera they buy. They learn on that first camera and then they realize what they really want and buy that later. This is why I recommend that you buy an inexpensive used camera at a fair price for your first camera. You can always sell it later for close to what you originally paid.

This same advice goes for lenses. A 150mm or 210mm in a modern copal shutter from Schneider, Rodenstock, Fujinon, Nikon, or Caltar would make a great inexpensive choice for your first lens.

Some used cameras are sold with a lens for an even better deal.

[Scott Knowles]

I would disagree with Alan with respect to the advice to essentially buy a learning camera, in part because it's doubtful you'll be able to sell it and you'll only learn it's deficiencies, especially if it won't do the photography you want to do. I still have and use my first camera because it's a good basic camera, a Horseman HD. It's a simple camera which doesn't have back movements, but is excellent basic work with a decent range of lenses (90mm to 240mm).

I will agree with the others to determine what you want to do first and let that define the camera and lenses, but I would really think hard about it because it's easy to spend money you won't recoup (market is full of used LF gear). And remember above all that film is not cheap to buy and for processing (self or lab), so it's the on-going expense you don't have with digital cameras.

But that said, LF is more about what you can do standing there with the camera than anything which completely changes your visual and thought process, and it's really cool to see a good 4x5 slide, which is all the reason to get and stay in LF photography if you have the funds for it.

[Marc B.]

Michael,
In the links below, (from a quick search), I have marked a few cameras found on the auction site.
These are [only] being suggested as 'watch' items. Load these links into your watch page; wait and see what they sell for.
In the weeks, or months to come, load other 'like type items,' links, to your watch page.

You say you have waited a long time. Wait a bit longer. Look at entry level cameras similar to the links I posted.
Search the web; read-up on the cameras listed. Any of the camera types listed would give you a good start to LF.

Set a budget of, say... $350-$500 USD. As mentioned, this amount should include the cost of camera,
lens, light meter, standard 4 X 5 film holders, case, etc... If later, you find that LF is not for you,
sell the equipment for little loss, if any.

There are also Polaroid, #405, Instant Pack Film backs, that use currently produced Fuji, 3.25" X 4.25", peel-apart instant pack film.
Aside from the 'Fuji-roid' option above, there are 'roll film' backs available for 4 X 5 cameras, using 120 film, with frame widths
from 6 X 7 or 6 X 9, all the way out to 6 X 12 and even 6 X 17cm.
Be warned...the 6 X 12 backs can sell for highs of $600+ USD. However, 6 x 7 or 6 x 9 backs can be had for $70-$120 USD.

Marc



Calumet 4 X 5 - w/lens
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CALUMET-4X5-...item564aa4c33a

Calumet 4 X 5 - w/lens
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CALUMET-4x5-...item27c7b0f25a

Toyo Omega - No lens included
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Toyo-Omega-V...item35bcdd9f31

Speed Graphic - w/lots of extras + lenses
http://www.ebay.com/itm/THE-PACEMAKE...item19d1be4c39

Cambo 4 X 5 Monorail - No ground glass, No lens
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CAMBO-4X5-FI...item2c64e0dee7

[John Kasaian]

You can assemble a cheap kit with a Calumet 401, Tiltall tripod, 3 or 4 used film holders and a used 210 lens from any of the big names that will accept the size of screw on filters you already have. Use your 35slr for a light meter. Scrounge around for a heavy black t-shirt, a magnifier for focusing & a cable release, and you're good to go!
Once you get the basics down--its not rocket science--and see what LF can do and if it's something you want to pursue, you can evaluate what items in your kits works and dosen't work for you. Maybe a folding camera like a Shen, or a handheld Speeder will be in order. Maybe the monorail does everything you want.
My point is that once your shooting sheet film (and it makes no sense to drop a ton of money if you're exploring---expensive does not equate to quality negatives) you'll have a better idea of what you can really use, what makes using your camera fun, and just as important---what you can do without.

I'd also encourage you not to mess with ebay especially if you don't know what to look for. If your first large format camera has problems it will give you fits---something you don't need to deal with when you're learning. Midwest Photo, Keh, and some other places will stasnd behind the used gear they sell. The folks who list stuff for sale here may also quite likely to treat you well.

[Jim Jones]

Knowledge is power. A good book (or several) on large format photography empowers one to make wise purchases and better photographs. Even so, one's first LF camera will probably not be their last one, and the last one might not be the only one. Over many years I've accumulated press, monorail, and field cameras. Each has its uses. Newer models may have conveniences lacking in old basic cameras, but rarely can take better photographs. Newer designed and multicoated lenses are better than the lenses of many decades ago, but the older lenses can do for today's photographer what they did for Ansel Adams and Edward Weston. The pet cameras and lenses of fine photographers won't help most of us take noticably better photographs. Before serious investments in camera gear, check descriptions and prices in completed auctions on ebay. As for printing, we now have a choice of wet darkrooms or scanning and digitally printing. With patience, good enlargers can be found for little or nothing. For years a modest Epson 2450 flatbed scanner served me well enough. It's a wonderful age to start large format photography!

[Frank Petronio]

No association with the seller, just an example, but great cameras like the Sinar F sell in the $300s nowadays: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sinar-F-with...#ht_500wt_1377.

In general, the wealthier hobbyists want exotic wooden lightweight cameras so if you do the opposite, you'll save a ton on professional metal monorails with full, unlimited movements, robust build quality, and unlimited systematic expansion capabilities.

A 150 - 180 - 210 f/5.6 Rodenstock Sironar-N or Schneider Symmar-S is a great lifetime lens, also found for under $300.

[Old-N-Feeble]

What do you mean by "starter"? Inexpensive... or easier to learn with? What range of lens FL do you need?

From what I've read 4x5 enlargers can be had really cheap right now... so now is the time to buy.

[John Kasaian]

Steve Simmons Using the View Camera is a good book to read before investing serious $$