Newbie Question ("Can't See Anything")

[Leonard Evens]

Matt,

I have a 75 mm f/4.5 Grandagon N. I think the f/6.8 is similar because at one time I considered getting one. The flange focal distance for my lens is 82 mm. That means the distance from the rear of the lens board to the film plane should be about 82 mm, not 75 mm, when focused at infinity. The light across the street should effectively be at infinity and you should be able to focus on it by making some fine adjustments, if the distance from the lens board to the gg is roughly 80 mm.

Assuming you have the standard Copal shuttter, you don't have to set the shutter on B. There is a preview lever which when you move it to the side will open the diaphragm. A red spot appears under it when it is open. With this shutter you can do anything in any order, except release the shutter with the preview lever in open position.

You really shouldn't be starting off with a 75 mm lens. Get something in the range 135-180 mm to start off with.

[Don Harpold]

Hello Matthew, The one thing that the others did not ask is are you under a dark cloth? If not you will not be able to see much on the ground glass. I to am a novice and I found out quick a dark cloth is a must even at night. Just my two cents. Don

[Capocheny]

Matt,

Nice to see an enthusiastic newbie at work.. in addition to playing with the camera I would also encourage you to pick up a book on the subject matter. I really found the Kodak Large Format Photography book to be useful. It's really easy to read and it takes you through some of the more important aspects to using a large format camera.

Another good book is one by a fellow by the name of Stone... it's really quite good too but I can't remember the exact title. Perhaps, someone else on this site can remember.

A third book that you may want to look for is the Sinar Handbook... it has a lot of good stuff in it and tends to simpify the learning process.

Long and short of all this is... have fun!

Cheers

[Brian Ellis]

I think you're principal problem is that you're using a wide angle lens, also that you're presumably using it with a plain ground glass (at least I assume that's what's on your camera since you don't mention a Fresnel or other brightening screen). That can be a difficult situation even for experienced large format users. Wide angle lenses are inherently more difficult to use from a ground glass viewing standpoint than longer focal lengths because the light from the edges of the lens has to travel so much farther than the light from the center of the lens and so is much dimmer. That's what leads to your ability to see a little bright spot and nothing else. Plus plain ground glass can be difficult to use with any lens but more so with a wide angle lens for the foregoing reason.

You might investigate a ground glass enhancer such as a Fresnel lens (though they actually can create more problems than they solve with a wide angle lens unless they're designed specifically for a wide angle lens) or better yet (IMHO) a BosScreen from Bromwell Marketing. I've put a BosScreen on every large format camera I've owned and they are excellent. They aren't a brightening screen as such but they have that effect because they spread the light out evenly on the ground glass, eliminating the hot spot you're seeing. They also don't present the problem with wide angle lenses that some Fresnels do. If you search the archives here under "Fresnel" or "Beattie" or "Maxwell" or "BosScreen" or something generic like "screen brigheners" you'll find a lot of information about add-on screens.

Welcome to the wonderful world of large format photography, where there's always something else you need to buy.

[John Hoenstine]

Matt,

From your photo of the set up it looks like you have not raised the lens to the neutral position. Follow Tim's instructions above for setting up the camera and see if that helps. If you are using it the way you have it in the photograph most of the circle of illumination is probabaly off the ground glass.

[Mark_3632]

This might sound pretty dumb, but are YOU too close to the ground galss. You are not looking through the glass but at it. Try stepping back a little bit. I am ashamed to admit that I had this problem. Your front standard is too low too. Rack it up so the knob is right in the middle.

Here is an idea.

Take the camera out without the tripod point it at your car and move the front standard out to about three inces from the back of the camera. Clear away all debris because you will be under the darkcloth. Hold the camera like you would a book and start walking toward your car. When it comes into focus stop, check your position. Set your tripod up there. play with all of the movements your camera has and watch what it does to your car. Look for light fall off and other weird stuff then read Using the View Camera. I found it easier to understand the book after I had actually seen the stuff it talked about.

[wfwhitaker]

Brian hit on something which I suspect may be at the heart of your problem. It's more difficult to see the image from wide-angle lenses on the ground glass - and a 75mm lens on a 4x5 is quite wide. The light from the lens strikes the ground glass at more of an angle than with a "normal" lens. It doesn't come straight back at you except right at the center. That's why you get the small bright spot in the center. You'll find that if you move your head off-axis (to the side, up or down), you'll locate a point where part of the subject (your living room lamp, for instance) will be clearly visible yet the rest of the image will be quite dim. The effect if frustrating even for more experienced photographers. Fresnel lenses are available which help to alleviate the situation (although the Fresnel should be one which is suitable for short focal length lenses.)



What would make your learning experience much simpler is to have a lens with a focal length which is in more of the "normal" range for your format. For 4x5 that would be anywhere between about 150mm and 210mm. There are any number of lenses available, new or vintage. Check the archives for past recommendations. Another reason for starting with a longer lens is my personal bias with view cameras that longer lenses can (not always, but can) make composition simpler. There's less to compose! I love wide-angle lenses, but sometimes the amount of material on the ground glass is overwhelming. If it's in the picture, it should be earning its keep. But I digress...



And, of course, you're burning to use your new camera! So get it out of the living room on a sunny day. Be sure to use a dark cloth (and secure it at the bottom, too) and have fun!



Best,
Will



p.s. - Took a look at the pic of your camera. Don't forget to check at the top of your ground glass to make sure that the bed of the camera isn't in the photo!

[Matt Wensing]

Me again,

Followed more of the advice, and in the meantime my tripod head finally arrived so now I can set the thing up a little better to experiment. I've found something 'strange', at least from the advice I've received; the strange thing is that if I'm focusing across the street, I can actually make out *more* of what I see on the ground glass with the bellows extended far beyond 3".

I do not yet have a dark cloth, but the brightness is fine--the issue is just changing the fuzzy objects into sharp ones.

The next step seems to be to acquire a more telephoto (135-200mm) lens (any recc's?), and also get a few books about view camera operation (thanks for the suggestions).

In the meantime I have not yet ventured outside as the temperature has been around -2 F for the past three days (with roughly -20 F windchill, though there's a heat wave of 9 F today)--nevertheless I may venture out into the parking lot and see what I can do.

This may sound dumb (not that I'm afraid to sound dumb), but is it possible that by attempting to look through my sliding glass window I'm interfering with the lens/camera's ability to focus? This is a question from my auto-focusing days when my camera would sometimes focus on the near plane rather than the distant objects I intended to shoot.

Thanks again--great forum.

[kallitype]

If you can borrow another lens, in the 135-150mm range, it will answer the question "It there something worng with the 75mm lens?". It is possible that there is a misplaced element, etc that is preventing the 75mm lens from coming to focus. If you take the lens out of the camera and hold it about 3 inches away from a printed page, you should be able to use it as a magnifier to check that the lens is OK.

[Matt Wensing]

Lens is definitely sharp when handled separately; gazed through and objects come into perfect sharpness around 3-4" from the front of the lens, so fortunately there isn't anything 'wrong' with it insofar as that test can prove.

I'm scouring eBay, etc. for a used lens in the 135-200 range. Any suggestions would be fine (I shoot landscapes almost exclusively: www.wensing-photo.com). Budget is fairly limited (around $350-400 max?).

Thanks again.