Empire State 14x17 Camera and Film/Plate Holders

[UlbabraB]

Hi,

I just received a "new" Empire State 14x17" camera and I'm waiting for a 450mm Nikkor-M lens in the mail, so now I'm going on the market for film holders (I plan to use it with X-Ray film).

I measured the back and as I thought is slightly different from the standard 14x17" size I found on the web (i.e. film holder makers sites and here http://home.earthlink.net/~eahoo/page8/filmhold.html). The biggest difference is the width, which is ~ 412mm versus the "standard" 403 ~ 406mm.

Since the ULF virus is bugging me and I assume that is quite difficult to find the original holders (I'll place a WTB and in the dedicated section of the forum, maybe I'm lucky), someone knows if the standard 14x17" holders can work on this camera, maybe with little modifications?

Thanks in advance for any help.

[winterclock]

If the back is similar to the 5x7 and 8x10 versions, it is difficult to use a standard holder. The opening is not only wider, but the light trap is a different style than the modern holders. You would have to shim the sides of the holders to correct the width fit, and then shim the face of the back to create a modern light trap slot. I tried this with my 5x7, but soon gave up and got a used B&J back on Ebay and made an adapter to fit it to the camera. In a year and a half of looking I have found one 5x7 and no 8x10 holders on ebay. If you can't find holders and aren't very handy, you may want to contact someone like Richard Ritter to have a new back made to take the modern holders. Good luck, if it's like the 5x7 it's a fun camera to use.

[Peter Gomena]

The Eastman whole plate film holders for my old Rochester Optical Company camera all were shimmed with strips of 1/8" wood on both sides by a previous owner. They're glued and screwed into place. I assume my camera originally was a glass plate camera that took wider holders. I don't know what modifications were made to the back, but it works well.

Peter Gomena

[ederphoto]

After a long time searching for 14x17 holders i gave up and sold my 14x17 empire camera .I believe that, with this camera you have two options, you either order a new 14x17 back with holders from any know manufacturer or you send your 14x17 back to a know manufacturer of film holders to insure proper fit .Original holders are very hard to find and on top of that , most of them are glass plate holders .With all the bad stuff said , now the good things about the format .It is a wonderful format and very unusual ,will give your work a great look ,some believe it to be the perfect format .Edward S. Curtis shot with one in the field ! Makes wonderful negatives,perfect for contact printing and alternative processes .Now it is up to you to put it all on a scale and see what weights heavier on you ! Good luck !

[UlbabraB]

Thank you for all the suggestions,I'll try some DYI with the standard holders and in case of failure I'll have a new back made from a manufacturer.

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Filippo, FWIW my opinion on ULF cameras in general is this. Once you commit to ULF you have to either have some money to invest or some skill and wood working ability. I have built three ULF cameras. 8x20, 11x14 and 14x17. I have always started at the back and have designed the back around the holder. The holders are the most costly part of ULF film work. 14x17 x-ray film is cheap and works great for silver printing or for alternative process work such as carbon transfer which is what I do. It only makes sense to me to build as much as you can to keep costs down. I think my 4 14x17 holders cost just about as much as the camera. The bellows was the other expense. The back is not that hard to make. You just have to get the film plane right. Hell, I was able to do it using only hand tools!

[TheDeardorffGuy]

I use old fidelity Xray holders with wood strips epoxied to the sides to center it in the GG frame. The Base of the back has a cushion of velvet ribbon. Never had a light leak.

[UlbabraB]

I received a couple of 14x17 S&S film holders from Sandy (they're beautiful) and like TheDeardorffGuy said, they just needed small wood strips (about 4-5mm thick) to be centered in the GG frame.

Next update after I've printed my first 14x17 kallitype, I'm waiting for a box of 100 Kodak T-Mat X-Ray films to start experimenting...

[Jim Fitzgerald]

I received a couple of 14x17 S&S film holders from Sandy (they're beautiful) and like TheDeardorffGuy said, they just needed small wood strips (about 4-5mm thick) to be centered in the GG frame.

Next update after I've printed my first 14x17 kallitype, I'm waiting for a box of 100 Kodak T-Mat X-Ray films to start experimenting...

You are going to love 14x17 prints! Congratulations and welcome to the big leagues!

[UlbabraB]

Just a little update...after some testing with 8x10 Kodak T-Mat Xray film I finally shot and developed the bigger ones! Meanwhile I found a veterinarian who swtiched to digital Xray and gave me his vertical developing tank and hangers. I've had some uneven development with trays during the tests, all resolved with hangers and dip tank.

The holders fit perfectly with the wooden spacers and I don't see any evident light leak in the negative. I haven't yet printed it but it looks fine, just a little bit thin in the shadows. Exposure was 1s at F/64, maybe thin shadows are because of the reciprocity failure.

The only tricky thing I found shooting with this camera (logistics adise...) was the vignetting caused by the lower part of the bellows even with a small amount of front rise. I'm using a Nikkor-M 450mm at infinity so the bellows it's a bit compressed. I tried to keep it out of the ground glass supporting it with my hands but some vignetting resulted, so I'll search a better and permanent support (suggestions are welcome)

Fun, fun, fun and the huge negative is very rewarding...