Mural Enlargements from 8x10 and Related Questions

[jantman]

I'm considering a series of mural size (approx. 52x100" or thereabouts) enlargements from black and white 8x10" negatives, specifically portraits but maybe I'll try a landscape shot too. My 8x10 Elwood just fell in two (literally) but I'm in the process of resurrecting the upper coulmn (which contains the head) and mounting it on a cart for horizontal projection. I have a fairly good idea of what I'm going to do, but have a few points on which I am undecided. I was wondering if the experienced folks out there could provide some advice.

1) My neg holder for the Elwood came without glass, and I've had standard window glass cut for it, but I haven't tried it yet. I know that AN glass is best, but is there some way I can get away with standard float glass? Any special 'tricks' that might help?

2) I found at a local library a Petersen's Photographic book "Photo Equipment You Can Make." They have a design for an 11x14" vacuum easel that's essentially a wooden frame with pegboard on one side and a hard backing board on the other, with some internal supports. Has anyone ever attempted something like this on a MASSIVE scale, like 60x120" or more? I know that there's no way that a household vacuum can power it, but I was thinking of dividing it into four or five separate compartments and hooking each one up to a vacuum pump. I know I've seen one like this somewhere. Keep in mind it will be used for horizontal projection. Any ideas? Has anyone built their own vacuum easel of any size? Is a vacuum easel the best for horizontal mural work?

3) I've heard lots of different theories on how to process 52" wide paper. I've thought of two main things - either using pieces of ventilation ducting (a sheetmetal guy suggested it to me), or some large diameter (approx. 18" or so) PVC pipe, capped on both ends, and then cut in half to make a semi-circular piece, with smaller pieces glued onto it as "feet" to keep it upright. Does anyone have another inexpensive method that works? I DON'T have giant sinks or anything for chemistry. Also, My 8' dakrroom sink won't fit such a HUGE print to wash it. Any suggestions on how to wash it? I'm considering a preliminary wash in a large bath and then bringing it up two flights of stairs to the shower, hanging it up somehow, and just taking the shower head to it. I'm sure there's a better suggestion. I don't really have enough room for the horizontal enlarger and also something like a kiddy pool.

4) Paper. Ilford Multigrade, my normal paper, is a bit expensive ($300+ a roll for 50") in huge sizes. I've decided that if I'm going to do this huge print, with the possibility of wash problems, I'm GOING to use RC. Freestyle has their new Arista.EDU house-brand which only comes in 40" wide, but it's $40 for a 30-foot roll of VC semi-matte. Their regular Arista graded is $70 for a 30-foot roll. Has anyone had any experience with these papers, especially in large roll sizes? Comments?

5) Mounting. HOW??? I've heard of wet mounting and read the thread on it. Any other ideas? I want something that is, in this order: not likely to ruin the print, inexpensive, and relatively easy to move around.

Thansk for the advice! Hopefully it'll all work out. I intend to shoot and print within the next three months.

[Bruce Watson]

I believe you are in for a world of hurt trying to do something this big. However, if it's what you really want to do, please let us know how it works out. Who knows? Maybe you'll inspire others.

I did read once about how to make a mural tray. Basically, you build a tray out of plywood that is six inches or so deep, and bigger than your print by about six inches in any direction. You raise one side up a few inches, and in the middle of the other side you cut a hole for the drain. This drains directly into a floor drain (if you don't have a floor drain, well...). To use, you drape the whole thing in plastic to make it "leak proof." You lay your exposed print in it on top of the plastic, then apply chemistry with mops and buckets. For something this big, bring friends ;-). To wash, you use a garden hose and sprayer, and lots of patience. Clearly, precision isn't going to be possible doing this, but I don't know why it wouldn't work.

It might be saner to find a lab that does RC B&W on their Lightjet printer. My local lab does this once or twice a week they say. They told me which paper, but I've forgotten. It is a B&W RC paper designed for use with a Lightjet though. Something like this would at least get you out of the processing of something so big. And it would probably be more evenly processed...

As to mounting, I've seen large prints cold mounted on large aluminum plates. Beautiful stuff - extrememly flat and smooth. I don't know if you can get larger than 4x8 feet however.

Another alternative would be to print it on canvas with a really big inkjet (a Mutoh say). Then you could mount the canvas on traditional stretcher bars and frame it just like painters have for centuries. I've seen this done also, and it works beautifully.

Of course, if you are willing to cut the mural and mount it in sections, there are all kinds of methods at your disposal.

Good luck - please let us know how it turns out!

[Mark_3632]

Personally, I cannot imagine the living hell something like this would be. If he is to be believed I met an old codger in a used camera store in tucson who said he worked on the big kodak murals. He said they processed in really long tanks and the paper was on rollers. He and another guy rolled it back and forth. After the exposure the paper was cut into strips for processing. Good luck but maybe some therapy might be in order ;^)

[bob carnie]

Jason I am in the process of doing this myself, It is difficult but not impossible, I make 30x40 fibre prints every two weeks or so and am building a new darkroom to do larger. Here is my method 8x10 horizontal Deveere on track and a 8x10 Durst condensor . Large metallic vacum wall with strong magnets to hold paper in place. Enlargers are Lazer Aligned to adjustable wall and as enlargers are on track you can move magnification back and forth to desired size. Both enlargers have a mobile focusing control to focus on the wall. I suggest fibre base paper as this kind of project deserves the best, I have bought hydroponic trays to hold chemistry and if your room is large enough you can process as if you are doing 16x20 prints with dev,stop, fix ,fix wash hypo clear wash. I have a 44x72 inch vertical washer designed and being built to handle 40x60 prints.(the design is based much like my kostiner verticals. The prints can be squeeged on a large plexi and hung to dry. Once dry I press the prints out on a 44x72 inch hot press . If I do larger a local lab will let me use their 48x96 hot press. Your idea is not crazy and I encourage you to proceed bob

[John D Gerndt]

I have considered the same sort of project.

Come the day I have negatives worth that effort I think I will make or have made a drum for processing. You would need one 32 inches in diameter for a 100 inch print. The ends need not be closed; you only need a rim to keep the chemistry in. You can have a recovery tray(s) made at the same time to reuse you chemistries. You will need a roller base but that has obvious solutions. It seems a whole lot easier than the methods described so far!

I use float glass for my carrier and have seen no distortions (I only enlarge to 3X). It is tough though to get one without scratches somewhere.

Most people suggest using a metal sheet and magnets for the paper. I do not suggest using aluminum for mounting, it is expensive (locally it is $100 for a 4x10 sheet of .0625) and heavy. Gatorboard seems to be the material of choice, but I have no direct experience with it.

[Tracy Storer]

I'll just address the vacuum easel. The Polaroid 40x80 used a large sheet of plywood (probably MDO) with routed grooves. There are a couple holes through to the back where hoses run to an Oreck commercial canister vacuum. It would be easy to make one like this, which worked great. Good luck, have fun.

[John Kasaian]

Jason,

Wow! Sorry to hear about you Elwood!

I got my Anti Newton Ring glass off a guy on ebay who salvaged it from a government surplus enlarger. Some time ago--- I read this on this forum pre photo.net---I wish I could remember the name of the person who posted it, maybe a search of "anti-newton glass" will turn it up---if you place a border of ruby lith tape around the edge of your top "window" glass---the piece thats facing the light source on the side that lays against your negative, it should lift the glass away from the surface of the negative enough to eliminate the rings.

Save yourself some misery...if you can build an easel to size(you've already got excellent advise,) cut your 40" wide paper into lengths equal to the short dimension of your finished print and butt the edges together on the easel before you make your exposure. The smaller (laughably smaller---its good to have a sense of humor when doing this) pieces will be easier to develop, wash and mount(you could probably do it in a bathtub so you won't need a floor drain.) Build three troughs for developer/fix/ "holding"wash and if you practice on some 8x10s first, I think you'll be surprised at how seamlessly you can get it to look.

By all means use Freestyle's RC paper. Make it as easy on yourself as possible.

Good Luck!

[Thilo Schmid]

Jason, I've been there and have done that, though my current darkroom does not provide enough space to continue this. And I don't do 8x10" - 5x7 is the Limit of my enlarger and other equipment.

Easel: I used a magnetic board and fixed the paper with magnetic stripes. Slight curls don't hurt at that size. My enlarger (L G139) is capable of wall-projection, which is the only way to go, IMO.

Processing: Have you ever heard about the Gutter Method? A Gutter (from your local hardware /do-it-yourself store) will provide you the best compromise between processing width and fluid volume requirements. Just pull the paper thru the gutter. You'll need a helping hand and it will be a mess - but it works. I do have a Deville Bobinoir which is essentially a professional gutter-system with a spool and an optional motor drive (see http://perso.wanadoo.fr/deville/sitdevi/produit/gdft/jcgdform.htm). Less a mess but a considerable investment, if you use it rarely. Washing works the same way (and is a real hard job with FB paper and without a motor drive). Alternatively, if your shower is large enough, you may stick the print to the walls of the shower (self-adheres when wet) and flush them with the shower.

Mounting: Go to a professional. Look for fair crafters or shop builders/inventory in the yellow pages.

Regards,

[Matt Miller]

Look at Clyde Butcher's site. Maybe even contact him for advice. He makes lots of mural size prints on RC paper. I believe he has very large trays to process the paper in. I'm not sure how he mounts the prints. I've seen his traveling display. He does have a couple of huge prints that are split like John described.

[jantman]

I'll give up Ilfochrome before I send my B&W to someone else to do. There's no way I can build, store, or fill 60x100" trays. A 60x100" tray with 2" of chemistry would require 21 gallons. Granted, if it came to it, I can get my hands on that much Dektol for free. But even the fixer would run around $100 if I got cheap stuff. (This will be a Photographer's Formulary job, most likely).

If the processing is THAT much of a problem, I'll have to save up the money and watch Ebay until a 52" Kreonite comes up for sale. But that's a last resort, and the money could buy me a nice new lens.

Thanks for all the advice. I'll see how things go with mounting the enlarger on the cart and how much space I can get in the darkroom, and how much everything will cost, and then figure it out. I'm still waiting on the lens I'm going to use for this project, I should get it mid-february, then I'll get into more serious planning and acquisiton.