8x10 Monorail for Portraits?

[Robert Jonathan]

Yeah, all the rails work together, even the silver and black!

The round rail system is the reason I got rid of the Sinar.

I HATE the round rail system, especially with long extensions.

Don't get me wrong, and don't get discouraged by my comments. It's ROCK SOLID with a 12 inch, or maybe up to 24 inches with extension rails or not, but if I need more, why should I have to buy more rail clamps for stability, and buy that stupid thing that goes on the tripod that holds two clamps, and then when you have a bunch of rails screwed together, it honestly gets kind of iffy and makes me nervous, and it's just plain stupid...

The standards are beautiful though. We all know that.

On the other hand, Horseman's extendable rail is so big and heavy you can beat someone to death with it, it extends to 700mm, and the rail clamp is geared, so you can reposition the whole rig at any time. A dream come true.

[cdholden]

On the other hand, Horseman's extendable rail is so big and heavy you can beat someone to death with it, it extends to 700mm, and the rail clamp is geared, so you can reposition the whole rig at any time. A dream come true.

Sinar has a geared rail clamp also, but I've only seen two. Either I have poor timing or they're not very plentiful... or both!

[Jay DeFehr]

Robert, are you saying the Sinar is not very stable at 36" of extension? That would be disappointing, and surprising. Surely there's a remedy?

[Hermes07]

Yeah, all the rails work together, even the silver and black!

The round rail system is the reason I got rid of the Sinar.

I HATE the round rail system, especially with long extensions.

Don't get me wrong, and don't get discouraged by my comments. It's ROCK SOLID with a 12 inch, or maybe up to 24 inches with extension rails or not, but if I need more, why should I have to buy more rail clamps for stability, and buy that stupid thing that goes on the tripod that holds two clamps, and then when you have a bunch of rails screwed together, it honestly gets kind of iffy and makes me nervous, and it's just plain stupid...

The standards are beautiful though. We all know that.

On the other hand, Horseman's extendable rail is so big and heavy you can beat someone to death with it, it extends to 700mm, and the rail clamp is geared, so you can reposition the whole rig at any time. A dream come true.

Not quite sure what you mean by this. Were you unhappy with the rigidity of the rail itself, or the rail clamp not taking the weight, or not being able to re-position the camera?

As for the last issue, you can easily mount the rail clamp to a geared tripod head like a Manfrotto 400 or a Majestic which are a lot more available than Sinar's version.

The rail clamp (I prefer the rubberised P2 style clamps) has never failed to take any punishment I've thrown at it.

As for the rail, I've used 18" extensions in series to get to rails of 3 metres plus. There definitely is some flex over such a large span and at a certain point you need to switch to using two tripods just because of the lever forces stressing and unbalancing the whole thing, but I've never found that to be the case at anything as short as 700mm - you can do that span with just two 18" rails.

[Jay DeFehr]

I'm sold on the Sinar system, and have a deal in the works. Thank you all for your valuable and much appreciated insights.

[Robert Jonathan]

As for the rail, I've used 18" extensions in series to get to rails of 3 metres plus. There definitely is some flex over such a large span and at a certain point you need to switch to using two tripods just because of the lever forces stressing and unbalancing the whole thing

That's my only complaint.

Otherwise, it's rock solid, and you can make long extensions work, but only with the addition of other accessories.

And you're right, there is a geared rail clamp, but it still gets in the way of the standards, unlike Arca/Horseman, where the rail slides into the clamp/sits on top of the clamp and doesn't interfere with the standards, instead of the clamp being *around* the rail and interfering.

[cdholden]

As for the rail, I've used 18" extensions in series to get to rails of 3 metres plus. There definitely is some flex over such a large span and at a certain point you need to switch to using two tripods just because of the lever forces stressing and unbalancing the whole thing, but I've never found that to be the case at anything as short as 700mm - you can do that span with just two 18" rails.

Have you used the extension rail that holds 2 rail clamps? I'm hoping to get one soon.

[Hermes07]

That's my only complaint.

Otherwise, it's rock solid, and you can make long extensions work, but only with the addition of other accessories.

Is there a monorail system that allows you to assemble 2-3m rails that are 100% rigid though? Sinar even sold 36" (or maybe 40", i forget) one-piece rails for use in scientific and defence applications. I have one and never bother using it as I can't see any benefit over using two of my 18" rails.

Even if you could get a 2 or 3 metre rail that was a solid as an iron bar, how would you go about working with a setup like this using just one tripod? Even at a metre, I prefer to use two tripods so I don't spend my shoot in a perpetual see-saw balancing act as I switch between lighter and heavier lenses, larger and smaller magnifications, e.t.c.

[Hermes07]

Have you used the extension rail that holds 2 rail clamps? I'm hoping to get one soon.

I haven't.

I have the saving grace of shooting in a studio on a flat floor. My Sinar setup actually "floats" on steel roller stands most of the time so adding an extra rail clamp is a piece of cake.

[Struan Gray]

Is there a monorail system that allows you to assemble 2-3m rails that are 100% rigid though?

Not at the diameters of camera rails. They simply are not stiff enough. I have seen weird contraptions with two or three parallel rails to increase the stiffness, but at some point you need to move to a better engineered solution.

There are rail systems for making optical systems without bolting everything down to a laser table. Linos make a nice one:

http://www.qioptiq-shop.com/en/Optom...ail-System-95/

There are any number of ways to add camera standards to such a rail, but the easiest is to get two or more rail clamps and mount a camera monorail on top of the big rail. The homebrew version would use an RSJ painted with Hammerite instead of a precision extrusion in aluminium.


Sinar rail clamps have a polymer collar which clamps onto the rail itself - they are not metal to metal. This means the rail does not get gouged by clamping, and allows the clamping force to be adjusted so that you can make small corrections to the position without the whole camera flopping about. The inevitable consequence of having that collar though is that the rail can rotate slightly in the rail clamp. With long rails (above 18") a single clamp no longer is stable enough for my tastes, although the vibrations do die down indoors out of the wind so you *could* get away with just one clamp for studio use.

The Sinar double rail clamp is a mad price for what it is. I got a Norma one for free along with my pan-tilt head, and it's just a letterbox rectangle of thick aluminum sheet with a tripod mount in the middle and two long slots for wing-head bolts at the ends. A competent machine shop could run one up in about fifteen minutes. If you have to have a commercial solution, Gitzo make a plate for mounting two cameras on one tripod which will do the job just as well as the Sinar version.

The point of the plate is not to increase the stiffness of the rail as such. It does do that, but is too flat to make an enormous difference. The benefit comes from having two rail clamps separated by 12" or so: you need a much larger torque to rotate the rail through a small angle compared to when it flexes in a single clamp. The double clamp dramatically reduces small angle rotations of the rail about the clamping point. The biggest downside is that it raises the camera's centre of gravity even higher above the tripod head - for this reason I prefer to have two support points rather than one tripod head and the double clamp.

Finally, you have to point the whole contraption at whatever you want to photograph. I really only work in the field, where I sometimes have 24" of rail. I put the tripod towards the front of the camera (about 1/4 of the length in from the end). With the pan-tilt head loosened off a bit I can quite effectively point the camera where I want while looking at the ground glass, and fine-tune with shifts and rise/fall when everything is locked down. I support the back end of the rail with one or more hiking poles, using the wrist straps to clamp them onto the rail. Most of the weight is borne by the tripod, the poles mostly dampen vibration.

A better way would be to use a bipod instead of the hiking poles. I've been looking at those nice small Benro tripods which let you take one leg off for monopod use. The remaining bipod is compact but stiff (and adjustable when setting up). If I used long rails a lot I would also seriously consider replacing the pan-tilt head with a two-side gimbal mount like the nature photographers use for their big teles. That would give more side-to-side stability. Such a tripod+bipod system would work well in the studio too, but most setups I have seen use a heavy duty studio stand and the double clamp - I assume because it is much easier to move about and align for different setups.