Wanderlust 4x5 P&S

[Tin Can]

All I can say is, I am not worried. Enough carbon black in the injection molded production model will solve all issues with the prototype. I believe these guys are in it for the long haul and this first camera will make their reputation. They have already revolutionized camera design, production and marketing. Nobody has done what they are doing. Everyone else just gave up.

Cancel your $99 investment. You will sleep better.

"You are not up to speed. The prototypes are 3D printed, they have different materials than the production models, which will be absolutely light tight. These guys just tell us a little too much. Do not worry, they have it under control."

I understand that. But it's a problem that is resolved with a simple modification, that requires so little time to address that it doesn't make any sense to continue ignoring. At least I don't understand why it hasn't been fixed. And it will verify that it's a material problem and not a design problem before the design gets mass produced.

[WayneStevenson]

"All I can say is, I am not worried."

Then don't be. It's a valid concern. A concern I think everyone who answered Ben's call to fund his business venture is entitled to.

It's not an investment. We aren't sharing the profits. We aren't getting these at cost where we can re-sell them. We did not purchase shares in Wanderlust. We purchased an opportunity to own a camera if everything goes well for Ben and they get produced. And we all want it to work for us when we get it.

[BarryS]

I think Ben mentioned that the 3-D printed prototype was made at Shapeways and they dyed the prototype black. My guess is they used the following material http://www.shapeways.com/materials/detail , so they're just dunking a translucent acrylic material into black dye. You can see from the example that it doesn't absorb the dye very well (no big surprise). The injection molding process will use a completely different opaque plastic mixture, so the solution is inherent in the production process. They'll be testing injection-molded prototypes, so I don't see any problem here.

[Ken Ford]

"You are not up to speed. The prototypes are 3D printed, they have different materials than the production models, which will be absolutely light tight. These guys just tell us a little too much. Do not worry, they have it under control."

I understand that. But it's a problem that is resolved with a simple modification, that requires so little time to address that it doesn't make any sense to continue ignoring. At least I don't understand why it hasn't been fixed. And it will verify that it's a material problem and not a design problem before the design gets mass produced.

What Barry said just above. I've handled one of the prototypes, and it shares the same characteristics of other prototypes I've seen that were made using Shapeways "Black Detail" material - it's slightly translucent, even after the black dye. It's not a problem, it's just the nature of the rapid prototyping beast. The production material will not have this characteristic.

[Oren Grad]

I understand that. But it's a problem that is resolved with a simple modification, that requires so little time to address that it doesn't make any sense to continue ignoring. At least I don't understand why it hasn't been fixed. And it will verify that it's a material problem and not a design problem before the design gets mass produced.

Something Ben posted over at RFF (emphasis added):

First things first: we need to raise $75,000. If we can do that, then on May 2 we'll begin waiting a couple weeks for the funds to transfer. During that time, we will meet with our manufacturing partners and figure out the final details. That's where it gets hazy. Hopefully everything goes smoothly, in which case we just have to wait around for the tooling shop to create the mold and run the first samples (which could take months).

Once we have the first 10 samples, we'll test them to verify that everything is 100% right. Then we'll do the production run. Because so much of this process is out of our hands, we can't give you a calendar date. But we've stated that we want to have these delivered by December.

[Ben Syverson]

Have you verified that it's the material that is causing the fogging? I think it's time you addressed the issue. Perhaps put some flocking material inside? I don't want to sound like a dick and rain on the parade but we're all backing you (near the tune of $100,000) and you're still running around with a camera thats' fogging film.

I understand and appreciate the concern, and I assure you that we really don't want to make molds for a faulty design.

It's hard to explain just how leaky this material is, because it looks so black. But imagine the plastic that gallon milk jugs are made out of. It's sort of like if you gave that plastic one coat of black spray paint. The inside is taped, and now some of the outside is taped too, but there are parts that are not possible to tape, such as the helical and the film holder mating surface.

For a while I was worried that the film back was leaking, but I'm now confident that this is not the case. A film holder is much more exposed in the back of a Graflex—my Super has only a short wall around the holder, like this:



By contrast, the Travelwide has walls that go past the film holder, and occluding springs. For light to get into the film holder, it would have to go around the steel spring prong, between the holder and the wall, and across the back:



So it's highly unlikely that the back is the problem. It has to be the material. We're going to tape up the camera even more and run some more tests soon. But we already know what the problem is and how it will be fixed in the production camera (solution: black polycarbonate), so it does not feel urgent to us.

I hope this explains the situation!

[David Aimone]

Sounds like a very methodical approach to problem solving for a problem that is entirely addressable. Otherwise there would be few functioning large format cameras using standard film holders. In fact it would seem that this design would have many fewer potential areas of problems due to it's simple and compact nature (as opposed to a camera with bellows and lots of movements).

If possible, we should let the issue rest and let Ben and Justin continue their work to produce the camera. No one is betting the farm here...

[zuiko90]

I've made 3 plywood 4X5 box cameras. Using nothing more than a scroll saw, sandpaper and wood glue, I've never had a problem with light leaks around the area where the film holder seats. If I can do this in an apartment then I'm sure Ben and Justin have no problem making their camera light tight.

[Andrew O'Neill]

Just under 100K. My guess it will hit it by the end of the day.

[sethlatimer]

I wonder if there is any other 4x5 camera in production that has sold 1000 units?