Crazy processing ideas

[Jay DeFehr]

I've seen a lot of discussion about novel processing equipment, but most of these discussions are concerned with making something practical, often for a very specific set of conditions. I get ideas that maybe aren't so practical, or partial ideas, and sometimes I can refine them into something useful, but it's the initial inspiration that's the most fun.

If you're a rigid, small minded, pedantic, former-machinist mostly interested in published tolerances, this thread will only frustrate you. On the other hand, if you enjoy thinking creatively and theoretically, and can put things like mass production and market penetration aside, please share your ideas-- the wilder the better!

I like robotics and automation and non-standard materials, so my mind tends to wander in those directions. ULF film processing is always a challenge because A) it takes up a lot of space, and B) it's very expensive. A few ideas, semi-related:

Collapsible, round trays-

ULF-sized trays demand a lot of bench space when in use, and a lot of storage space when not in use. When I was putting away my collapsible reflector (you all know the type) recently, I thought it would be nice if I could collapse my processing trays similarly, and keep them in a handy little bag somewhere. That got me thinking about the reflectors collapsing so well partly because they're round, and then I wondered why we don't use round processing trays? Part of the reason has to be because film is not round, and a round tray would have to be larger than the rectangular film = wasted space, but what about using trays one size larger than the film being processed? An 11x14 tray takes up around 190 square inches of counter space. A round tray that would accommodate an 8x10 sheet of film would need to be about 13" in diameter, or about 133 square inches, and since it's round, it wouldn't create the edge density problems rectangular trays can, and it would require less solution volume than an 11x14 tray. Storing a 13" diameter tray is no big deal, but a round tray for processing 11x14 film ends up being about 18" in diameter, and a rectangular one is 16x20. A 6 tray set of round, collapsible trays for processing 8x10 could be stored in 1/2 a bread bag.

On a side note, I think the circle should be incorporated into the darkroom layout, as well. When my darkroom was in a renovated attic bathroom, I could reach everything in it from my chair by rotating and rolling a few inches. It was incredibly convenient, and comfortable, and I actually missed it when I moved into a dark room 5X as large. If I ever build another dark room, it will be round.


Robo-Jellyfish -

I confess that I grow bored and restless agitating a tray in the dark after about 5 minutes. I know, I'm not proud of it. What I prefer is to set my parameters, push a button, and return when development is complete. There are lots of ways to accomplish this, and I look forward to others' ideas, but one of mine is the Robo-Jellyfish. You know those swimming pool filters that skim the surface of the pool in a random pattern, sucking up any debris they encounter? Well, the Robo-Jellyfish is kind of like that. It's a little round pod that floats on the surface of the developer tray (or any tray you want agitated). Inside is a tiny pump, like this one (for illustration purposes):

http://www.simplypumps.com/miniaturepumps-pictures.htm

and a battery, and a microchip, etc. Around the circumference of the body are exhaust ports for the pump, and attached to them are small, soft, flexible tubes. In the center/ bottom of the soft body is the intake port for the pump. You get the picture. When the pump is on, it sucks developer up through the center, and pumps it out the tentacles, which swish randomly over the surface of the film, and push the jellyfish around the tray in a random pattern. The "microchip" is symbolic for any necessary intelligence/circuitry to make the thing work as needed". A the minimum it would be turned on at the beginning of development and off at the end, but it might be good to have the option for intermittent action.

Even more theoretically-

Imagine a ping pong ball with a much smaller ball bearing inside. Now imagine the ping pong ball is very small. Now imagine 100 of them, or a thousand (depending on how small you imagined them to be). Now imagine them floating on the surface of the developer, or even filling the developer like foam. Now imagine a powerful magnet passing over the surface creating patterns in the balls.

Nitrogen burst effect without the nitrogen-

Imagine the above balls covering the surface of a deep tank like foam. Now imagine a powerful magnet beneath the tank drawing them very quickly to the bottom of the tank and releasing them again. The displacement of the developer would be equal to the volume of the balls, and when the balls were floating on top, they would prevent oxidation of the developer, like a floating lid.

Yes, I like magnets. Sue me. Ok, enough of my babbling. Any other crazy ideas?

[Drew Wiley]

Somewhere else I already suggested a lightproof hamster ball. Of course, the hamster would have to be wearing a hazmat suit, a scuba tank, and teflon gloves
so the film wouldn't get scratched.

[Bill Burk]

Why isn't film round? The image circle is.

[Jay DeFehr]

Warped minds bend alike! A biological solution! I like it! I bet there's a species of catfish that could live in a solution of PC-TEA.

[Jim Jones]

Perhaps your robo-jellyfish could have IR emitters and sensors so they could be programmed to develop the highlights a little less to prevent blocking up.

[Jim Michael]

Couple of agitation ideas:

Membrane in the bottom of the tray that is pumped with fluid or air quickly so the impulse agitates the chemistry.

Transducer generates waves in the chemistry.

[Jay DeFehr]

Perhaps your robo-jellyfish could have IR emitters and sensors so they could be programmed to develop the highlights a little less to prevent blocking up.

Jim, I think that's only half a joke. Imagine a XY plotter with a print head, but instead of inks it deposited processing chemicals, and every time it made a deposit, it checked the density of the deposit location, and constantly compared density measurements from the entire image area. If density for any given location trended too dense, it could skip it, or deposit water, or even a restrainer instead of developer. Areas too slow to develop could be accelerated with an alkali, or more concentrated developer, or warmer developer, etc. It would essentially formulate the correct developer for each deposit site on the fly. Imagine the computing power that would require! Imagine the interface- input contrast, global and local, minimum density, maximum density, sharpness index- process! Perfectly processed film every time.

[Jay DeFehr]

Couple of agitation ideas:

Membrane in the bottom of the tray that is pumped with fluid or air quickly so the impulse agitates the chemistry.

Transducer generates waves in the chemistry.

Yes, I think the membrane bottomed tray (like my round collapsible ones) opens up a lot of potential for agitation mechanisms. I simple bladder beneath the tray, or as part of the bottom membrane, could be inflated/deflated to move the solution.

How would the transducer work?

[Jim Michael]

Transducer would just be something like a speaker that transmits sound waves. I don't know how effective this is in moving fluids around but easily tested with some food coloring.

[cosmicexplosion]

i am getting agitated just reading this thread....does that count, or is my humour underdeveloped? boom chick!