More Kodak discontinuations

[Jan Pedersen]

I just recently printed with the 320TXP/Azo combination incouraged by on an earlier post by you Sal and i agree that it is a very nice combo.

The 8x10 B&W sheet film from Kodak may soon be history but if i were using more 4x5 than i do i would start filling the freezer now. I don't think it will be arround for much longer. I have started to buy some 120 rolls on a regular basis just to be prepared.

[Drew Wiley]

I'd hate to lose that extra margin of quality security that might happen with Kodak's
demise. There's no direct substitute for HC-110 or TMRS developers, for instance, and
will the replacement products for things like RA4 developer in small batch kits really be
equal to Kodak's version? One can lose quite a bit of money just finding out. TMax films
are more resistant to handling scratches etc than the generic replacements, and Ilford
doesn't really have comparable curve characteristics in any of their current films. Ektar
was just intoduced and there's nothing quite like it, and it gave me a ray of hope now
that Ciba is going down for the count; and I just don't regard digital printing as a realistic option - equip and software are going obsolete all the time, it ain't cheap at
all to print in big sizes, and definitely doesn't give me either the look or market niche
I am personally aiming for. And inflation is finally kicking in big time on all kinds of photo
supplies. So that leaves me little option to seeing just how much film I can afford to
stockpile in the freezer and simply hoping that C41 film processing will remain available.
Communicating with Fuji can be just as miserable as with Kodak, and I suspect they
have their share of infighting and conflicting info too. But at least their color paper
looks like it will have a strong market presence for some time.

[Brian Ellis]

. . . 4x5 B&W isn't in "danger." A couple of weeks ago I bought a 50 sheet box of TMax 400, no problem. I'm sure that I could go downtown and buy another 50 sheet box. But Kodak 8x10 B&W? Hmmm...

I'd rephrase that to say 4x5 B&w isn't in "immediate danger." Long range its prospects are no different than those of 8x10, it's just a question of how long "long" is.

[adam satushek]

...and if it TPX and Ektar in 8x10 now....how long will it be Portra 160 in 8x10, then 4x5...and even 120. This recent round of discontinuations doesnt "directly" affect my work flow "immediatly." However, I am seriously worried that my recent investments in a drum scanner, mamiya 7 lenses, and additional 4x5 lenses will be a waste if I cannot get color neg film in the near future. While I'm sad that TPX will be harder to get, as I was recently contemplating shooting some in 8x10, it would be the loss of color neg film that would really scare me. I need it to do the work I do.

[Kirk Gittings]

I'd rephrase that to say 4x5 B&w isn't in "immediate danger." Long range its prospects are no different than those of 8x10, it's just a question of how long "long" is.

agreed

[Drew Wiley]

Right when I was about to beef up my inventory of mtg board and print boxes, and
maybe do a custom run of mouding, this pops up, and there goes my elective cash
into that damn freezer! But so far this hasn't been a bad strategy - film discontinuances or not, because it has given me an edge on the pricing inflation of
film and paper in general. I'll be able to coast a few years without major film purchases.
But I certainly don't want a decades worth of anything for fear it will spoil or be
genuinely superseded. Just ironic how you go onto the Pro section of Kodak's website
and they're promoting how wonderful Ektar is for pros now that sheets are available
too! Kinda like back when a co-worker invited me to dinner at their house so I could
answer a few repair questions. Once I was there he handed me a pipe wrench. Two
hours later his wife showed up with a Burger King bag. I'd be a little more sympathetic
to Kodak's plight if this kind of thing hadn't happened over and over again. A relatively
small pain for me, but when a lab owner friend of mine got burned so bad by unannounced service discontinuances that it bankrupted him, well, one starts getting
the picture that this has a lot to do with attitude and not just product.

[Kirk Gittings]

one starts getting
the picture that this has a lot to do with attitude and not just product.

I get the feeling that they have just accepted the idea that film is a dead and that they are just riding the dribble of profits available till the perceived end.

[adam satushek]

Sooo.....anyone used Fuji color neg film recently? Any chance we can start getting it in 4x5 and 8x10 at a reasonable price here in the states?

[Drew Wiley]

It ain't that simple, Adam. Kodak stills offers a couple of flagship neg films in 8X10
(Portra 160 and 400) which probably have more commercial viability than Ektar. They
just aren't the films I personally use. The annoyance is that they barely wiggle their
toes into the water before they instantly retract something, and don't give it enough
time to do anything realistic. People are barely learning how to use this new film
correctly and are now forced into a group order or nothing. Yet the 4x5 size flies off
the shelf so fast at the local camera store that I have to keep extra in the freezer or
volume order it too. So its not like the emulsion per se isn't viable. It's more like Kodak
just deciding 8X10 is too old fogey for them. Not a good idea where just a handful of
forums like this one spread reputations and opinions almost instantly. And when is the
last time you ever heard an actual rep from EK or Fuji actually chime in to the discussion, if ever. But they're probably smart enough to stay clear of anything the
higher-ups have already made up their mind about. Yet over the last couple of decades
it doesn't seem to matter whether someone spends two hundred bucks a years on
Kodak products or two million - when they decide to change course for whatever
reason, tough luck on whoever previously supported them.

[adam satushek]

Thanks Drew....yeah I know its not simple...I just really wish it was.