About Ebonys and the Ebony SV45TE

[MWitmann]

After spending several years with the 35&120 format i've decided to "graduate" and make the "next step", starting the LF adventure.

I've spent two months searching for my ideal setup, based on my needs and budget, and i've became aware of many cameras, lenses and possibilities.

I wanted to start with a setup which will last and be useful for several years, avoiding to change items periodically, and i started to search for a field camera with no restriction of movements, avoiding the monorail sector.

I ended up with two cameras: the Shen Hao HZX 4X5-IIA and the Ebony SV45TE, both folding cameras, with very similar movements.

I noticed that other bodies (Toyo, Wista category) dosen't have all their movements ( Shen Hao/Ebony) so i faced a situation of big "separation", highlited by something like 3000$ price difference between the two.

I'm very aware of all the discussion " with other, cheaper cameras you can get the same quality picture" or that "i have to invest on lens and not so much on the body", but i'm also aware that you must love the piece of equipment which you're using.

I've worked with a friend's Shen Hao and liked it a lot; i've also worked with a crown graphic, and founded nice, but when i was putted in the situation of choose, i went for the ebony (also because i've get it from a very fair trade).

The intention of my thread is to get togheter some opinions and advices from other ebony users, because i'm waiting for the camera (2 months) and i'm very curious to hear if will be that good

Initially i had some concerns about the wood cameras and i wanted a metal body, but after several researches i decided that would be a nice "risk" to take. Initially i also wanted a non folding camera, and i was looking for that ebony models (more fast shoting on field, less movements to take etc) but after that i considered the extra movements of the SV45TE a better call. I know that in general use i will not use all the movements but i think that will be useful to have it there anyway, mostly because i will surely tempted to explore all the possibilities of the medium and system.

I'm pretty sure that the ebony is nice piece of art, considering all the story behind (somehow comparable to the leica) , and i saw how snobbish is considered the ebony user, but i see in this camera a monstercar tu burn out than a crystal to take care of , the first scratch is the harder..
My point is also connected to the fact that i've found in the SV45TE a complete camera, which will work just fine in almost all the situations. I went fot it because it has the back shift of 50mm that allows panoramic composition, like the 45S, and all the movements needed.

will mount a Nikkor SW 90mm F8, a SIronar S 135 and a Nikkor M 300 F9.

Hope i did the right choice

Cheers

Mike

[Michael Alpert]

Mike,

You've purchased a beautifully engineered and wonderfully constructed camera. I've used a 5x7 Ebony camera for many years in all sorts of weather conditions. The camera is always a joy to use. Ebony cameras are not delicate. With reasonable care, they will last for a lifetime. You have made a choice that I am sure you will not regret.

[duff photographer]

I have a 45S. It's a very well-made field camera with a well thought out design. The range of movements and the way they are laid out is very good. No other camera is made of ebony and titanium. It smells good as well!

I won't go into details about comparisons with other 'wooden' field cameras suffice to say that the others also do their job just as well. However, I have found the combination of features available on the Ebony to be better than the rest. I'm sure that in time some of the others will catch up in this respect.

There are times when I felt I needed the more precise geared movements of, say, an Arca Swiss but with a bit of practice one can make the necessary adjustments quite accurately, but this is an inherent issue of all wooden field cameras compensated for by less bulk and lower weight.

They are expensive, not helped by the strong Yen at the moment, and to be frank I don't think they're worth two to three times the price of the alternatives. You are paying a little more for the name but they are still worth more than the competition for the materials used, quality of production (although other cameras are just as good on this), and the way they are set up.

[MWitmann]

at the beginning i was very tempted about the 45S, because of the non folding procedure and also because it has 80% of the movements offered by the SV45TE.

At the end the choice was made mostly by the chance, finding a good deal for the 45TE; but i wuoldn't mind to find also a good deal for the 45S.

I intend to use the camera for landscape, mostly in urban environment, so i hope to get it well with the 45TE. I admit that somehow i regret the non folding version, because on the field, in a city in which the people are very paranoid about the action of taking pictures, the minutes for the folding operation can cost the picture...

From the other side i've found the 45S a bit limitated when it comes about longer lenses, but i found it a very versatile, easy to use camera, which will cover perfectly the landscape needs and not only; the 45TE seems somehow more "important". Before stumble into the ebony cameras i was thinking about the Linhof technikardan but at the end i've decided to avoid the rail cameras (but i still thinking that the technikardan is a great machine)

I do believe that with all the fine wood and titanium still a overpriced camera, but i think it enters the zone of the "love for details and quality", which is a pretty good argument when it comes to "spend something extra".

The best camera is the one capable to materialize your intentions, and at the same time is the camera that you use with real pleasure, for years.

I think that with the ebony and other products from the same range, the extra money goes for the sensation that a certain kind of product can offer. I had this kind of feeling many years ago, with my first Leica, and during the years i was always surprised to realize that i can not become bored of it.

A friend of mine are looking for an ebony, for almost 2 years; i will suggest him the 45S

[Brian Ellis]

I owned the 45TE. I thought it was grossly overpriced and I didn't care much for it even apart from the price. I hated the focusing system. With many lenses you'd be halfway through focusing and the focusing wheel would start spinning in your fingers, at which point you had to switch to another knob to continue focusing. It drove me crazy. The Fresnel wasn't very good considering the cost of the camera (the one on a $600 Tachihara was much better for example). And there was often some kind of problem getting the front standard set up, the details of which now escape me (it's been about 8 years since I owned the camera). I kept it for a year or so and went back to a Linhof Master Technika.

This of course doesn't mean you won't be perfectly happy with the camera, plenty of people are, but you asked for opinions from users of the camera and that's mine.

[MWitmann]

I hated the focusing system. With many lenses you'd be halfway through focusing and the focusing wheel would start spinning in your fingers, at which point you had to switch to another knob to continue focusing. It drove me crazy.

This focusing issue, the one connected to the knobs, seems avoided in the 45S...there are only 2 knobs/side instead of 3, which probably complicate the focusing process. Did you find that the 3 knobs were the problem?

[Ed Kelsey]

I had an Ebony 45SU for a while. I found the quality of the ground glass/fresnel less than acceptable. The camera really needs a better screen like a Maxwell to make it perfect.

[Drew Wiley]

I instantly got rid of the fresnel and installed a slightly trimmed down Sinar gg, then a
Satin Snow which has proven ideal. The focus is a tiny bit irritating but is precise and
doesn't slip. For the money I would have preferred helical gearing like on a lil' Horseman, instead of standard rack & pinion. But these are minor complaints. The
machined titanium hardware is going to last way better than either anodized alum or
brass, if push comes to shove. And this is allegedly the only wooden camera made
to machine shop standards. I have no regrets buying it, and it certainly seems more
stable than anything else in comparable weight.

[Michael Alpert]

Every time an Ebony camera is mentioned on this forum, Brian pipes up with the same complaint, based, as I understand it, on his use of a camera that he bought second-hand many years ago. I think his criticism is misleading. As he has repeated stated, Brian prefers Linhof cameras, and he has every right to prefer them. But metal Linhof tanks are a different species. Brian does not seem to be bothered by the fact that no one agrees with him when it comes to his negative assessment of Ebony wooden field cameras. The third knob problem is not a problem: it is a necessary part of a traditional field camera that is compact in overall size while offering a long bellows length, and it is very easy to work with the transfer from one knob to the other. The ground glass is easily changed, though I have not felt the need to do that with my 5x7. Brian certainly has a right to express himself; and, as we all know, there is always room for improvement in cameras. But Brian might do well to acknowledge that no one of actual experience with these cameras agrees with him. In fact, Ebony cameras are designed and constructed with great care. Yes, they are expensive; but these days everything from Japan is expensive through no fault of the Japanese manufacturers.

[Brian Ellis]

Every time an Ebony camera is mentioned on this forum, Brian pipes up with the same complaint, based, as I understand it, on his use of a camera that he bought second-hand many years ago. I think his criticism is misleading. As he has repeated stated, Brian prefers Linhof cameras, and he has every right to prefer them. But metal Linhof tanks are a different species. Brian does not seem to be bothered by the fact that no one agrees with him when it comes to his negative assessment of Ebony wooden field cameras. The third knob problem is not a problem: it is a necessary part of a traditional field camera that is compact in overall size while offering a long bellows length, and it is very easy to work with the transfer from one knob to the other. The ground glass is easily changed, though I have not felt the need to do that with my 5x7. Brian certainly has a right to express himself; and, as we all know, there is always room for improvement in cameras. But Brian might do well to acknowledge that no one of actual experience with these cameras agrees with him. In fact, Ebony cameras are designed and constructed with great care. Yes, they are expensive; but these days everything from Japan is expensive through no fault of the Japanese manufacturers.

I figured I'd hear from Michael, he's told me before that I shouldn't criticize Ebony cameras.

I don't know why I should "acknowledge" that no one of actual experience with these cameras agrees. First, I don't think that's true. I doubt very much that I'm the only person who's ever been disappointed with some aspects of an Ebony 45TE. Second, it doesn't matter. The OP asked for opinions of the cameras from users. I'm a user and I gave him my opinion along with the reasons for it. I don't know why I should say anything about what others think of the camera, they can do that for themselves if they want to (though I note that I did say many people are happy with them, I guess that isn't going far enough for Michael.) Sorry Michael but expressing opinions is part of what this forum is about.

And for the record, as I've told Michael before, I've owned two Ebony cameras. The first was used and was the mahogany version of the 45TE. It wasn't as sturdy and precise as I was expecting and I thought that might have been because it was used. So I sold it and bought the ebony version new. It was no different. Certainly not flimsy, just not what I had expected from all I read about Ebony cameras before buying mine. Maybe I was expecting too much, maybe the camera just isn't as great as others think. I'm free to form my opinions, others are free to form theirs.