Alternatives to mineral oil for drum scanning

[NicolasArg]

Hello board,
I'll be receiving (hopefully) a Howtek 4500 drumscanner soon and can't purchase any commercial mounting fluid (as far as I know they don't ship it overseas). I read here on LFinfo that mineral oil can be used BUT all my slides are Kodak E100, G and VS, and from what I read here, mineral oil can destroy these emulsions.
Is there a substitute for MO for drum scanning that can be purchased in a drug store or prepared from raw chemicals? I think I have the mylar issue covered.
Thanks in advance,
Nikolay.

[Brent Long]

You could give baby oil a whirl (bad pun fully intended ). I think that'd be alright, and shouldn't be hard on your film, but wait for others to chime in before doing that. I've only ever done it on a cheap flatbed.

[Daniel Stone]

I'd imagine theres at least (1) graphic arts supplier in South America, try finding out if they can order the Kami fluid for your needs. It needs almost NO cleanup, where as mineral oil, or other "oils" can leave serious residue w/o extra cleaning steps, all which increase the chance of scratching or damaging the emulsion. I have no experience w/ baby oil or mineral oil, but after a friend let me give mounting a try with my own chromes on his drum scanner, I now have lots of respect for people that do it a lot . My friend has a 4500 as well, and he uses Kami, but we're here in the USA, and can drive to p/u the chems directly from Aztek anyhow.

But I'd definitely google up any graphic arts/separation houses that do pre-press work. They should be able to help point you in the right direction. I find it really hard to believe that shipping Kami products overseas isn't allowed. Putting it in a shipping container and on a boat isn't like flying it...

-Dan

[E. von Hoegh]

Kami scanner fluid datasheet. You can make your own.

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/pdf/ms...ng%20Fluid.pdf

[NicolasArg]

You could give baby oil a whirl (bad pun fully intended ). I think that'd be alright, and shouldn't be hard on your film, but wait for others to chime in before doing that. I've only ever done it on a cheap flatbed.

Thanks, do you use Baby oil on an epson scanner? I scan with one too and would like to try wet mounting, wonder if baby oil is safe to use on slides and negs and is it easy to clean after the use.

I'd imagine theres at least (1) graphic arts supplier in South America, try finding out if they can order the Kami fluid for your needs. It needs almost NO cleanup, where as mineral oil, or other "oils" can leave serious residue w/o extra cleaning steps, all which increase the chance of scratching or damaging the emulsion. I have no experience w/ baby oil or mineral oil, but after a friend let me give mounting a try with my own chromes on his drum scanner, I now have lots of respect for people that do it a lot . My friend has a 4500 as well, and he uses Kami, but we're here in the USA, and can drive to p/u the chems directly from Aztek anyhow.

But I'd definitely google up any graphic arts/separation houses that do pre-press work. They should be able to help point you in the right direction. I find it really hard to believe that shipping Kami products overseas isn't allowed. Putting it in a shipping container and on a boat isn't like flying it...

-Dan

Thanks Dan, actually I already sent several mails to Buenos Aires, the anxiety is killing me however, it could take months!
When you say no clean up, you mean the actual scanner or the film?

Kami scanner fluid datasheet. You can make your own.

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/pdf/ms...ng%20Fluid.pdf

Wow, thanks! I've checked the list and naphta is basically lighters fluid, mineral spirits is sold here as aguarras. N-hexane is the difficult one I think.

[E. von Hoegh]

I'm willing to bet you can substitute naphtha for the hexane. Another name for commercial hexane is petroleum naphtha, so it might be the same stuff you're buying as naphtha. There's often a difference between trade names and chemical designations.

[NicolasArg]

I'm willing to bet you can substitute naphtha for the hexane. Another name for commercial hexane is petroleum naphtha, so it might be the same stuff you're buying as naphtha. There's often a difference between trade names and chemical designations.

I'll test it with my Epson today, I think Naphta+mineral spirits in the proportion stated, could do the trick.

I wonder why industrial alcohol can't be used, as far as I know, it's water free...

[sanking]

Thanks, do you use Baby oil on an epson scanner? I scan with one too and would like to try wet mounting, wonder if baby oil is safe to use on slides and negs and is it easy to clean after the use.

I have used baby oil for fluid mounting and it worked fine. However, cleaning up the negative after the scan was definitely not easy.

You could also use glycerine, but I think clean up would not be easy with it either. If you can not purchase Kami the best substitute IMO would be a mix of naptha and mineral oil.

Sandy King

[Noah A]

Kami is so good I'd hate to use anything else. I'd really pursue Dan's advice and try to find a source. You might want to check in at the Scan Hi-End group at Yahoo. I'm sure not everyone there is from the US and lots of people use Kami. The film often doesn't even need to be cleaned after scanning since the Kami evaporates and doesn't leave a residue.

The drum should be cleaned with drum cleaner after you scan, but mostly to remove the residue from the tape (which is also minimal if you use Kami tape, but drums are expensive so clean them and treat them right).

Obviously if you they won't ship to you it's not an option, but Aztek is a great resource and I prefer to spend my money there on consumables and here's why:

My Howtek 8000 died a while back. I had a feeling it was the power supply but I wasn't sure. Shipping it from the Eastern US to Aztek would have been expensive and I couldn't really afford it at the time. So the folks at Aztek helped me quite a bit with advice and suggestions. They even tracked down the wiring diagram and pinout diagram of the power supply so I could diagnose the problem myself at home. And then they sold me the part I needed to sucessfully fix the scanner. Evan took a lot of time even though he knew I wasn't going to go for the more expensive route of having them fix the unit or having them do a preventive maintenance, which I should do but simply can't at the moment.

Aztek is a valuable resource when it comes to supporting and repairing Howtek scanners. (And of course they still make the Premier, which is a great scanner.) So even if I could get my supplies cheaper somewhere else, I'll gladly support an outfit that continues to cater to a niche market.

[Sevo]

I wonder why industrial alcohol can't be used, as far as I know, it's water free...

...as long as stored in sealed containers. Alcohol is not even a good film cleaner, being considerably hydrophilic - that is, it will absorb water from the gelatin (where it is present proportional to the absolute humidity of the air). This may (temporarily) cloud the gelatin, a no do for a scan fluid. Besides, industrial alcohol (any from methanol to the propanoles) is too volatile and flammable to be practically useful and safe as a scan fluid.

Glycerine, a higher order alcohol, is better suited and once was used in many commercial scan fluids, but it may lastingly soften the gelatin in high humidity conditions, and is not marketed any more as a scan fluid today. You can get away with it in dry conditions, but it would be quite a risky choice for the original poster, who seems to live in the tropics - at least unless he is of the scan-and-dump school of film users like many a newspaper lab in the eighties/nineties.