Everyone's a photographer

[Jay DeFehr]

Robert,

Based on his business plan, a case could be made that your son is behaving professionally. Does that, or the cost of his instrument have a direct bearing on the quality of his performance? Maybe. The quality of his instrument surely relates to the music he makes with it, even if it doesn't in itself guarantee quality results, and his professional behavior demonstrates a certain level of seriousness and commitment. He might not be a seasoned pro, but I don't think there's much of substance to separate your son from other professional musicians.

[Greg Blank]

You can't be sure without hearing him, and even then its a matter of what you like. If one hundred other folks say he is good they trump your preference, despite the fact you may be making a better assessment for a variety of reasons & perhaps valid reasons. This leads back to the client and vendor relationship. As Brian stated an awful lot of folks are ignorant, but then again there are plenty of snobs basing assessments on serialized education and no practical experience. Having an education in a field does not always equate to having talent, I think we can all agree that natural ability does exist. There is no shortage of people doing many things without the background and calling themselves experts and with that part I completely agree with Brian.

but I don't think there's much of substance to separate your son from other professional musicians.

[Jay DeFehr]

Greg,

My point is that the term "Professional" is a market distinction, and not a badge of quality. Robert's son is functioning in the marketplace as a professional does, and the quality of his performance has no bearing on that. I think we can all agree there have been many successful professionals of questionable ability, in many fields. Expert is different than professional, and one need not be one to be the other.

[Greg Blank]

True, you earn money then you are able to claim to be a professional, but it does carry connotation. To act professional one does not argue with the clients, hired hands or denigrate the competition- despite one's expertise. If one is an expert and perhaps the only one, then one can certainly choose to break those rules but its a lonely path I think, however right one answers tests.

What I find far more interesting than this discussion is that no one here has made the specific observation that the Photographer in the video looks a lot like Sarah Palin. I think this video was an excercise in commentary of choosing someone with experience versus someone that simply says they are a valid choice. As a people watcher I noticed it, too bad no one else did. Oh well.

Greg,

My point is that the term "Professional" is a market distinction, and not a badge of quality. Robert's son is functioning in the marketplace as a professional does, and the quality of his performance has no bearing on that. I think we can all agree there have been many successful professionals of questionable ability, in many fields. Expert is different than professional, and one need not be one to be the other.

[Alan Gales]

Our society as a whole is becoming one in which quality in any form is being devalued. If you're educated, articulate, etc, you're an "elite" and that's a bad thing. Everyone is celebrity or has an attitude that they are because in the old days being a celebrity meant that you were celebrated for having accomplished something. Not anymore. Now the bigger the train wreck that is your life, the easier it is to become a celebrity.

The reason why there are people who will accept a piss poor photo is simply because they are ignorant. With experience of any given area comes sophistication and a far greater reference base. If the only wedding albums you see are crap, and your's is just slightly better crap, then you think you got a good wedding album. And to be honest, I'm very much a photo snob and consider wedding and event photography to be pretty much the lowest end of the photography spectrum, still I've seen some wedding albums that are near art or at least extremely moving documentary work. I've seen wedding albums that told a story, not just recorded who was there. Done by truly professional wedding photographers. But that kind of quality is rare, and the vast majority of people shooting weddings today are not skilled professionals but too often some part time photographer or hobbyist who thinks they're a professional because some ignorant people have paid him.

If you look at wedding albums from the 1940's, 1950's, 1960's, they're beautiful. Incredible tones, and image quality. The formal pictures look as though a top stylist worked on making the dress look incredible, with the train perfectly styled and flowing from the bride. Just gorgeous stuff. But today, it's too often a non professional getting paid far more than their worth.

Experience is a very relative thing. Many people try to short cut experience, as though a 4 day workshop is the equivalent of 10 years of work. And for those that have no real experience, or who think they have but really only have a second or third rate level of experience, it's hard to fully explain to them what it's like to have learned from, and worked in the highest levels. They really have no idea of just what is required. it's the major leagues versus AA baseball. But that level of experience is getting harder to come across now. That level of experience evolved because the requirements and competitiveness kept increasing. You were forced to get better just to survive. But now the required quality level in so many fields is dropping, and it is purely price that matters. Give me good enough that's cheap instead of give me something great that costs more. And in that world the photo poser can survive and the master photographer will struggle.

The truly professional photographer has a facility, a studio to pay for. Has vastly more gear than the poser, because many jobs have differing requirements and the perfect tool is required for each and there has to be redundancy on gear because missing a deadline because of faulty equipment is not acceptable. The poser needs none of this. They have their day job, and while a blown assignment may make them feel bad, they'll still have a roof over their heads. For the professional blown jobs threatens their very ability to provide shelter and food for their family and they risk all they have worked for.

Brian, I agree whole heartedly with everything you said except for the statement that you feel that wedding photography is the lowest end of the photography spectrum. I feel it's a bit unkind.

I have shot two weddings. One as the only photographer and one as an extra. I was asked to do each and I did them both for free. Fortunately, the two couples were extremely happy with my work. I learned that there is a lot more to being a good wedding photographer than just being a quality photographer. I would never want to do it for a living but since I have done it I have a lot of respect for those that do. Of course I'm talking about quality wedding photographers!

[Alan Gales]

True, you earn money then you are able to claim to be a professional, but it does carry connotation. To act professional one does not argue with the clients, hired hands or denigrate the competition- despite one's expertise. If one is an expert and perhaps the only one, then one can certainly choose to break those rules but its a lonely path I think, however right one answers tests.

What I find far more interesting than this discussion is that no one here has made the specific observation that the Photographer in the video looks a lot like Sarah Palin. I think this video was an excercise in commentary of choosing someone with experience versus someone that simply says they are a valid choice. As a people watcher I noticed it, too bad no one else did. Oh well.

I thought it was Sarah Palin! I showed it to my wife and daughter and we were all a little confused as to why they used Sarah Palin.

[Alan Gales]

Passed along from a photo instructer friend of mine

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhalmKt1IXU&sns=em

Greg,

I call them Craigslist photographers. Here in St. Louis there are always people on Craigslist who own consumer DSLR's and post that they are photographers looking for jobs. The line usually is that they love photography and they shoot portraits, pets and nature photography and pretty much anything you would want and of course they also shoot weddings! Of course they charge very little since they just love photography!

They always show a sample of their work and it is always horrible. It looks like snapshots that my mother-in-law shot! Sorry Jackie!

Alan

[Brian K]

Brian, as usual, I disagree with almost everything you've written, and find your arrogant, smug tone particularly grating.

Gosh Jay, I'm so sorry you take offense at what I wrote, although it seems that you are the only one to feel that way, and what I wrote seems to have actually struck a chord of agreement with most here.

Arrogant? I seem to remember the definition of arrogance as being," having an exaggerated sense of one's own abilities, experiences or knowledge". So who would the definition of arrogance best fit when the topic being discussed is the quality and requirements of professional photography? A very experienced, highly accomplished professional photographer or an oilfield worker (your own listed occupation).

I have known 100 times more professional photographers, seen them work, assisted them, rented my studio space to them, then you ever will. Yet you speak as though you actually have something of value to say. But to be fair Jay, if I ever have any questions about working on an oilfield, I will give your opinions on that subject my full respect and attention.

And the reason why you disagree with everything I write, and find me "particularly grating" is that I tend to burst the bubble of the illusion that you have about yourself and photography. My POV is almost always that it takes years of full time study and hard earned experience to really master photography, while yours is more of the "if you own a camera you're a photographer".

I guess you might feel more like I do about professionalism in photography if you had anywhere near the investment in it that I, and most professionals, have. But I guess you can never relate to that because not many people pose as "oilfield workers" so your professional designation is not being dragged in the mud by people posing as professionals.

I'll tell you what Jay, if you want to get a sense of what it's like to be a pro, then quit your day job, invest all your savings, open a studio and compete with real professionals. See how long you last. And if by some miracle you do, I can guarantee that you will look back at the uninformed crap that you spout, about a field with which you have no actual experience, and feel like an idiot for having said anything.

[Brian K]

Brian, I agree whole heartedly with everything you said except for the statement that you feel that wedding photography is the lowest end of the photography spectrum. I feel it's a bit unkind.

Alan, I did start off by saying I'm a photo snob and I also write that I have seen wedding albums that are art. But to be fair in my original area of photography, advertising and editorial, my peers held a similar view regarding wedding shooters.

[Greg Blank]

Then what about child pornographers and those cheesy folks in the mall that shoot pass- port photos? I guess your friends weren't applying all that fancy edu-macation they and you have

Alan, I did start off by saying I'm a photo snob and I also write that I have seen wedding albums that are art. But to be fair in my original area of photography, advertising and editorial, my peers held a similar view regarding wedding shooters.