Everyone's a photographer

[Greg Blank]

Passed along from a photo instructer friend of mine

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhalmKt1IXU&sns=em

[Brian K]

Yep, that just about sums it up.

[Jay DeFehr]

Everyone is a photographer, and more and more, everyone is a film maker, too. I think these beginners who go out and shoot weddings, etc., don't usually do a very good job, but I don't feel much differently about most of the established "Pros" who shoot weddings at much higher rates. The quality gap is closing very quickly with the dropping prices of high quality DSLRs, and beginners, who often shoot seasonally, without the overhead of a studio, can work for far less than their professional counterparts, and often a friend/relative with a camera is pressed into service as wedding photographer as a gift to the new couple. This is bad for the traditional professional wedding photographer, but good for everyone else. Some people will always be willing, and even insist on paying a professional, but most are happy to save some money for the honeymoon by using a willing friend or relative, eager to put a new DSLR through its paces.

[Greg Blank]

How many weddings have you shot Jay- just curious? The part about saving money on a craft that actually has paid rather well for years kind of sticks in my crawl, because you indicate that is a good thing. Parts of what you say I agree with. Providing a professional experience to the client requires more aspects than newbies or dabbers tend give so that part I do not agree with. The element of getting participation for group photos is the overriding factor why people have chosen me to do the weddings I have done & I remember a lot of stories related to those 200 some weddings. There is plenty of room for everyone to do weddings but there is a client base always going to be out there wanting the best money can buy. I started out doing really low budget weddings 35mm film, Then once I had enough dollars saved moved to 6x6 and then to digital SLRs- I have taken images with my 8x10 at weddings. The digital is certainly easier, but there is a big difference between using a prosumer slr and an 8x10 and there are folks that will pay extra for silver prints because the quality dif is easily seen. That said I have a lot of knock out creative images both film and digital that the average newbie or Uncle Ernie doesn't have a clue how to produce and never will. All I can say is folks get what they pay for. I have done enough weddings now that I could do more, most likely I will not as they tend to run together, once that happens its best to change gears or slow them down and charge more. If I do more it will be those looking for a more customized product than is being offered at the low ends of the trade. Even the best of the industry looks cookie cutterish when every photographer supplies the same books, style and experience...so wedding photography - I agree does attract the easy dollars seekers and hack

[Marko]

If learning by trial and error is indeed the main learning method for most humans, then everybody (or at least a great majority) should pick an upper-end professional wedding photographer by their third wedding, given contemporary culture.

But seriously, that's assuming that everybody a) wants artistic, professionally done images and b) can tell the difference.

Which is assuming a lot, especially in the afore mentioned contemporary culture. Many people, in fact, don't. All they want to have is something by which to remember days gone by. It's similar to music - professional musicians and hi-fi enthusiasts always assume that reproduction quality is something everybody should naturally strive for. Except that lots of people don't. They mostly simply want to listen to the actual music without much concern for the technicalities.

Coming back to marriages, I suspect a shoebox full of Uncle Ernie's photos would be much more valuable and enjoyable to a happily married couple than an elaborate leather-bound album full of masterpieces shot by the famous name will be to a couple busy fighting over custody rights and divvying up their other valuables.

But it's all a matter of perspective. The contemporary culture is just an indicator of the direction the majority goes.

[Brian Ellis]

If learning by trial and error is indeed the main learning method for most humans, then everybody (or at least a great majority) should pick an upper-end professional wedding photographer by their third wedding, given contemporary culture.
. . .

Anyone who's getting ready for their third marriage should know by then not to waste their money on a professional wedding photographer. Even I learned that. There is no album for the third, just some nice photographs made by a good friend. : - )

[Jay DeFehr]

Greg,

I've shot a few weddings. When I began to get interested in photography I thought it might be fun to shoot weddings and make a little money for film, etc. I went to our local wedding photographer and told him I would assist him, free of charge, to see whether shooting weddings was something I was really interested in pursuing. He said he'd think about it, and asked me to bring in some of my work. I did, he agreed to allow me to assist, though he was clearly concerned about aiding potential competition. He shot MF film with RB67s and monolights with softboxes. His work was technically very good, and his customers were very happy with it, though it looked stiff and commercial to my eyes. After assisting him with half a dozen weddings, I decided wedding photography was not for me, and went about making my personal photos. I was very grateful for his instruction, and he for my help, and we've remained friends since then. He reluctantly switched to digital, and eventually gave up wedding photography.

I said the ubiquity of high quality DSLRs and people willing to shoot weddings for little or no money was good for everyone but professional wedding photographers, and who can argue? If people were not happy with the work of these amateurs, they still have the option to hire a pro, but more and more, they don't. "Providing a professional experience", whatever that means, is of debatable value. Many people are happier with a familial experience at what is, after all, the beginning of a new family. I acknowledged there will always be people willing to pay a professional, but I don't agree that these paid pros necessarily do better work, or work more valued by the clients than the work provided by friends and family. Often the most meaningful images come from knowing the relationships of the attendees, and insiders have a big advantage here. Also, the wedding party is more likely to be relaxed and comfortable with a friend or family member than with a paid stranger. With the latest generation of DSLRs, the technical hurdles to even photography are practically removed, and there are more serious amateurs than ever before, many of whom are every bit as capable as the local pro, and who enjoy the advantages noted above. I think you're being far too generous to the pros, and far too critical of the amateurs; it's almost as if you're taking this personally. There's no point in arguing about this; if most people preferred pros to amateurs, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

[Brian K]

Our society as a whole is becoming one in which quality in any form is being devalued. If you're educated, articulate, etc, you're an "elite" and that's a bad thing. Everyone is celebrity or has an attitude that they are because in the old days being a celebrity meant that you were celebrated for having accomplished something. Not anymore. Now the bigger the train wreck that is your life, the easier it is to become a celebrity.

The reason why there are people who will accept a piss poor photo is simply because they are ignorant. With experience of any given area comes sophistication and a far greater reference base. If the only wedding albums you see are crap, and your's is just slightly better crap, then you think you got a good wedding album. And to be honest, I'm very much a photo snob and consider wedding and event photography to be pretty much the lowest end of the photography spectrum, still I've seen some wedding albums that are near art or at least extremely moving documentary work. I've seen wedding albums that told a story, not just recorded who was there. Done by truly professional wedding photographers. But that kind of quality is rare, and the vast majority of people shooting weddings today are not skilled professionals but too often some part time photographer or hobbyist who thinks they're a professional because some ignorant people have paid him.

If you look at wedding albums from the 1940's, 1950's, 1960's, they're beautiful. Incredible tones, and image quality. The formal pictures look as though a top stylist worked on making the dress look incredible, with the train perfectly styled and flowing from the bride. Just gorgeous stuff. But today, it's too often a non professional getting paid far more than their worth.

Experience is a very relative thing. Many people try to short cut experience, as though a 4 day workshop is the equivalent of 10 years of work. And for those that have no real experience, or who think they have but really only have a second or third rate level of experience, it's hard to fully explain to them what it's like to have learned from, and worked in the highest levels. They really have no idea of just what is required. it's the major leagues versus AA baseball. But that level of experience is getting harder to come across now. That level of experience evolved because the requirements and competitiveness kept increasing. You were forced to get better just to survive. But now the required quality level in so many fields is dropping, and it is purely price that matters. Give me good enough that's cheap instead of give me something great that costs more. And in that world the photo poser can survive and the master photographer will struggle.

The truly professional photographer has a facility, a studio to pay for. Has vastly more gear than the poser, because many jobs have differing requirements and the perfect tool is required for each and there has to be redundancy on gear because missing a deadline because of faulty equipment is not acceptable. The poser needs none of this. They have their day job, and while a blown assignment may make them feel bad, they'll still have a roof over their heads. For the professional blown jobs threatens their very ability to provide shelter and food for their family and they risk all they have worked for.

[Greg Blank]

I agree with you Jay on your last post, and I commend you for deciding to do otherwise. I chose to run my own business of 17 years + for numerous reasons and made weddings a portion of it. Once I had enough $$ to do weddings the way I wanted, I lost an affinity for being under paid. Once I had my Speedtron 1205CX system and cameras and backup cameras I started resenting the people who expected me to work for pennies on the dollar. I also resented the huge cost of advertising my service to people that wanted you to compete with Uncle Ernie at the lowest price range . I completely agree with Brian K's post and would add that there are a lot reasons wedding photographers get a bad rep. If you cherry pick your work and only show the best of, but can't do a reasonable job being consistent then you will be so percieved maybe after you are over your head. Doing a wedding requires a general proformance level that should exceed expectations everytime, but its tough thing to do for many reasons. I think that having a style in weddings can produce a sense of timelessness, but unfortunately it can make the work look dated....if its not your style and just an attempt to follow the style de jour.

You can go from hero to zero with one or two missed shots, or awkward moments of conversation. Weddings are about emotions and being
beyond that for the photographer.

I doubt Uncle Ernie has a three light radio controlled 1200 watt second system, but you never know. I have done weddings for family. Family and friend weddings are generally more issues during the day. If done well I imagine as you say appreciated in the end give the relative cost of paying a pro.

[jayabbas]

Thank-you Brian K for your clarity.