What about a Canham MQC 5x7 metal field camera?
What about a Canham MQC 5x7 metal field camera?
It's a good decision IMHO. The last thing you need in the field is a camera designed for use in a studio - big, heavy, bulky, etc.In my many years here I've seen at least a hundred threads started by people who want to switch from their monorail to a field camera because of the weight, bulk, etc. I don't remember any asking about a switch in the opposite direction though there may have been one or two I've forgotten about. Learn from the mistakes others have made. Get a field camera for field work (which doesn't totally exclude monorails, there are some designed for field work but not most of the ones mentioned here).Originally Posted by jim steines
As for fiberglass, Mike Walker's cameras are made of ABS mould-injected plastic. That's the closest to fiberglass I know of. http://www.walkercameras.com/
Brian Ellis
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you do criticize them you'll be
a mile away and you'll have their shoes.
He mentioned spending $800 on a high-end lens and having $500 left for a decent camera. Except there are no 5x7 field cameras available for only $500 unless he is extremely lucky to get something undervalued.
Probably shouldn't have even mentioned 5x7 to the poor guy since it is pointless and won't help him learn or even make a decent photo. Sometimes on these forums we lay our personal desires (5x7 is nice) onto unsuspecting newbies and it doesn't help anyone, except sometimes you can pick up a sweet deal a few months later when the newb sells all his new gear at a loss.
We're just going to go in circles with this. The OP should read up on the basics in the core of this website - there are also numerous threads about getting started in large format photography, picking cameras, etc.
But... I'll make a condensed summary of all those threads -- start with some simple and inexpensive 4x5 set-up and figure that out first, then get into the nicer, fancier gear after you've made sure you have the patience and attitude to even do this. Otherwise you'll just be cannon fodder like most of the tourists who buy cameras and then resell them, unused, after they sit around for months or years.
Just go here: http://www.largeformatphotography.info to read up and come back to the forum after you get a grounding.
If you buy a starter outfit as suggested, for a decent price, then you can easily flip it later. But the nice thing is that a large format "starter outfit" can usually become an "expert outfit" in the right hands. Some $200 4x5 Crown or Calumet or Toyo or whatever camera is perfectly capable of making world-class work, it just won't be as nice a camera as a $1500 one....
And yes, Ansel Adams made plenty of 50" prints from relatively primitive, cheap gear that most of us would shun today.
As usual, Frank offers a voice of reason...
You'll be hard pressed to find a 5x7 camera for $500. Not to mention that with 5x7, everything else you'll need gets more expensive. You'll need a lens with larger coverage. This may be fine for a normal lens but if you want a wider lens down the road your choices will be more limited and you'll spend more. The film holders are more expensive. Used fidelity 4x5 holders can be had for as little as $10 each. And have you checked out the cost of film? B&W is not a problem but color film in 5x7 is going to cost you.
And do you really, really want to screw around in the darkroom cutting 8x10 sheets down to 5x7? You'll need to do a precise job or your film may not fit the holders. And let's not forget about dust. Don't forget to check to see if the labs in your area process 5x7 film, and again compare the cost to 4x5.
With 4x5 you'll have the option, if you choose, to shoot fuji instant film. It's not cheap but can be a good learning tool or, more importantly, a good proofing tool. If you're doing complex setups you may want that option down the road.
Do yourself a favor, stick to 4x5 and a metal camera of some sort. You can always switch to 8x10 later if you need still more quality, but I suspect you'll be blown away by the quality of the 4x5.
Last edited by Noah A; 4-Sep-2011 at 10:00. Reason: typo
You sound like you know what you're talking about, Frank, so will trust your advice and start with 4x5. A folding metal design would be my first choice, but I'm not sure I've answered the field vs monorail issue. Right now I would prefer a field design because I don't need the extra movements and weight is a consideration, but I haven't ruled out a monorail design entirely.
I am a rather meticlous and exacting person who is not likely buy something based on romantic preconceptions. An LF system is a large purchase and I aim to make the right decision, it's just unfortunate that 'right' is almost completely subjective. I have read and printed the majority of the information on this (and other) sites, but am yet to go through the forums. If I get a LF system, I will use it, and strive to do it properly. The mistakes page did the opposite of intimidate me.
I mentioned fibreglass because Ive worked with it and you can build anything with it. It is cheap, light, lightproof, very strong, and is very very easy to fix. It can easily be made to look beautiful, as you can gel it any colour or have any printed design. Injection plastic molding is also a good idea, too though. Just more expensive and harder to fix.
There was a very expensive Carbon Fiber 4x5 back in the 90s, it was a short-lived product though, search out "Carbon Infinity" - it was pretty cool.
While buying into a large format system is more of a commitment of time and money than an inexpensive consumer digital camera, it doesn't have to be overwhelming or too complicated.
Because so much of this is subjective and personal, most photographers here will try different cameras over time, perhaps a light field camera to contrast against a robust studio-type camera. If they really like this form of photography and have the resources, they might eventually get one of the more exotic and expensive cameras that combine the best features (compact yet robust, light yet fully featured). But it is just like anything else in life: you can have it cheap, robust, and fully-featured... but only two out of those three characteristics!
What happens to a lot of newcomers is they have deep pockets at first and want to buy the "best of everything" and then they get overwhelmed and it sits around and they never really use anything to its best advantage. It is a much better route to be a tourist and enjoy the process, try a couple of different styles of cameras and photography and then you can narrow down what appeals most to you based on your experience, not someone else's.
Luckily the classifieds section of this forum has proven to be a reliable way to swap gear and usually, if you buy out of need and have patience, you won't overpay at first and then you can swap things around without ever losing very much from your initial investment.
Heck, some of the sharpies here actually make money lol.
Also a gathering or workshop is a really great way to get a feel for all of this, they do happen fairly regularly around the country and you might put some feelers out for one near you.
Good luck!
I'm in Australia but I'm aware of meetups and I plan to contact some LF users in my area to really understand just what it takes.
Thats the thing with 2nd hand, it generally doesn't loose too much value, so if you're smart you can try something for shipping.
What I want to do is get a middle of the road camera and a good lens and then learn to use them well before I make any more decisions.
Just a for-instance, you can get a Sironar-S lens for about double what the same focal length Sironar-N lens will cost (just ballparking here).
But in terms of improving the sharpness of your 50" prints, the majority of the photographers here will tell you that using a more robust tripod (i.e. heavy) will have a great impact on your print quality. The differences are very subtle and you have to be working at the highest level - getting good $$$ drum scans, using very good technique, the best inkjet and media, etc.
So it may well be a year or ten before you ever cross the threshold of really being at the point of seeing the difference in your work. I've been working as a photographer for 28 years and only occasionally make a poster.... for a magazine spread or moderate portfolio print you won't ever see the difference - so I've never felt that I needed a Sironar-S.
Yet there are plenty of people who put Sironar-S lenses on wooden cameras with #2 tripods in the wind no less... to each their own ;-p
to each their own indeed.
From start to finish, the only issue apart from my skill that would adversely affect the printed image would be my tripod. I couldn't imagine an S making a difference for a few years yet.
In terms of 4x5 metal field cameras, what could you recommend in the sub half-G $ range?
If you use only one of those words, either metal or field, then you might find something ;-p
I can feel good about recommending one of the Toyo 45A or Wista VX or SP cameras, depending on their individual condition of course. They often come up in the $600 to $800 range.
There was a "Super Speed Graphic" metal camera that you can find for around $4-500 that is decent but it won't have as many movements as the Toyo or Wista.
Wooden cameras shouldn't be completely discounted, but alas the better ones, like the Wista, Chamonix, maybe the Shen-Hao, Wisner, Zone VI, etc. usually start around $600 and up.
The bargains are the metal monorails like the Sinar F1, F2, Norma, as well as a range of Toyos, Cambos, older Arca-Swiss ABC models, Horseman, some entry-level Linhof Kardans (my fav) and others - they start at $200 and $500 will buy you a lot of camera. There are several encouraging threads about how these can be transported reasonably -- they aren't that much bulkier or heavier, some models are actually lighter than the field cameras. You can tell my bias here....
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