Best Practices, Making Silver Prints from Digital Files

[Frank Petronio]

I was coming at this from the idea of having digitally output 4x5 film negatives for enlarger printing, I'm not looking for contact printing or alt processes...

But I am not tuned into what people have been doing with large contact prints from large inkjet-printed negatives. Is it possible to do a smooth, rich image that is comparable to a well-exposed and printed "straight out of the camera" film negative?

I don't want to "show" that these are digitally manipulated, I would rather people see them as good quality traditional silver prints from conventionally shot 4x5 film negatives. I know that's a lie, but one I want to perpetrate ;-)

[Michael Rosenberg]

Sandy,

I get the impression from your post that you have not seen a good silver gelatin print made from a desktop negative? Other than the one done by Ron Reeder on Lodima Fine Art paper a couple of years ago??

Mike

[sanking]

Hope your trip out west was great,

Bob

Hi Bob,

Trip out west to Gabriola Island and Vancouver was great. Did some work on the beaches of Gabriola. What diversity you get on western beaches, a much richer tapestry than we typically see on the beaches in the eastern/southern US.

Weather out there was to die for, highs in the 70s, lows in the 50s.

And best of all, all plane rides without the terror of my recent return to the US from Toronto!!

Sandy

[sanking]

Sandy,

I get the impression from your post that you have not seen a good silver gelatin print made from a desktop negative? Other than the one done by Ron Reeder on Lodima Fine Art paper a couple of years ago??

Mike

Mike,

I had pretty much forgotten about the test Ron and I made on silver (BTW, it was VC, not Lodima). In fact, I have have seen some excellent prints on silver from digital negatives, and made a few myself on AZO with a profile I created. But they had the look of 16X20 prints enlarged from 4X5 Tri-X negatives, not contact prints. In short, the smoothness on AZO was not comparable to what I would expect from a contact print made with a fine grain continuous tone film on silver paper.

On the other hand, I am able to get that type of quality, or very close to it, with my carbon printing with digital negatives.

Sandy

[D. Bryant]

I was coming at this from the idea of having digitally output 4x5 film negatives for enlarger printing, I'm not looking for contact printing or alt processes...

But I am not tuned into what people have been doing with large contact prints from large inkjet-printed negatives. Is it possible to do a smooth, rich image that is comparable to a well-exposed and printed "straight out of the camera" film negative?

I don't want to "show" that these are digitally manipulated, I would rather people see them as good quality traditional silver prints from conventionally shot 4x5 film negatives. I know that's a lie, but one I want to perpetrate ;-)

Well Frank,

I would strongly recommend Digital Silver Imaging for having B&W prints made from digital files. I previewed some of the samples at the SPE Spring National Convention last March.

It changed my attitude about making silver gelatin prints from digital files. The offer RC or fiber based paper made by Ilford and file uploads are done with ROES which supports MACS & PCs. Their service is not inexpensive but when you calculate what you will spend making ink jet negatives for silver gelatin and the comparative quality differences the service is worth the money for portfolio prints and client work.

http://www.digitalsilverimaging.com

You can request toning in selenium but personally I would probably tone prints myself.

Good luck,

Don Bryant

[PViapiano]

Ron Reeder used to have a QTR profile for printing on Ilford paper up on his website. It was excellent for getting in the ballpark and for tweaking to get even better results. I made several contact prints from OHP to fiber paper that were outstanding, depending on the subject matter.

Linda Butler has used LVT negs for much of her fantastic work, ie, her Italy and China books. The negs were then used in an enlarger and printed traditionally.

[bob carnie]

Frank - send me a file on my ftp, I am making enlarged negs this week, I will make you a 16x20 at the friends price *Zero* then you can see for yourself.

Like Digital Silver Negatives I can make prints on fibre from digital files, but as well am making silver negatives for contact printing.
I do not think an LVT negative put in an enlarger will give you the quality you are looking for, as the enlargement process would break apart, I am hopeful someone here could prove me wrong.
But I do think a contact print off one of my Lambda silver*not injet* negative will give you a wonderful full range print.
I am willing to try make it if you are game.
This week Frank, as I am only doing this type of work once and awhile.
I see this as making a monster enlarged interneg so don't worry about being called a liar, this process comes honestly from my photographic trial and error history.

I was coming at this from the idea of having digitally output 4x5 film negatives for enlarger printing, I'm not looking for contact printing or alt processes...

But I am not tuned into what people have been doing with large contact prints from large inkjet-printed negatives. Is it possible to do a smooth, rich image that is comparable to a well-exposed and printed "straight out of the camera" film negative?

I don't want to "show" that these are digitally manipulated, I would rather people see them as good quality traditional silver prints from conventionally shot 4x5 film negatives. I know that's a lie, but one I want to perpetrate ;-)

[bob carnie]

This is interesting.

What PPI does an LVT image at?

I forgot that most of the Large Commercial Labs went from enlarger printing to a Kodak LVT or similar device and made 8x10 negatives that were then put in the enlarger for bigger prints during the Late 80's - mid 90's and then onto Lambdas and Lightjet.
I never worked this way as during that period of time I was starting a small Silver lab doing process and contact - to small print... So I cannot give you a proper comparison as I never saw output this way.
Frank there are hundreds of possible large outfits in your area that would probably give them away, if the are already not in the trash, if you find a second one give me a call.

Bob

Ron Reeder used to have a QTR profile for printing on Ilford paper up on his website. It was excellent for getting in the ballpark and for tweaking to get even better results. I made several contact prints from OHP to fiber paper that were outstanding, depending on the subject matter.

Linda Butler has used LVT negs for much of her fantastic work, ie, her Italy and China books. The negs were then used in an enlarger and printed traditionally.

[Frank Petronio]

There used to be a good sized outfit here in Rochester that was an LVT service bureau, which was smart since Kodak made them up the road. They primarily did retouching and digital imaging work in competition with me - this was in the Silicon Graphics days - but occasionally I had to swallow my pride and have them make me a LVT chrome or negative output for a client that wasn't equipped to accept a digital file - most clients in the mid-1990s didn't know what to do with a 100-200 mb TIFF, there was no good way to proof it since their monitors weren't calibrated and the only way to make a Matchprint or contract proof was to spend more money outputting color separations - since every pre-press and print shop ran their own closed loop workflow, inserting some outsider's file was fraught with problems and they were often reluctant to work with me. So just giving them a tried-and-true color chrome that fit their existing workflow was often the most expedient thing to do.

And even though Chromogen hired my ex-employee and chased after my clients, and otherwise behaved like greedy m-fers, I couldn't fault the quality of the output... it seemed just like out-of-the-camera film to me. Of course it depends on the scan and quality of the file going into it.

Luckily their rigidity and the mass-acceptance of Photoshop by poorly-trained art directors killed them off, justice was served, but I don't know what happened to all those old LVT machines? Perhaps they are in downsized engineer's basements next to the beer cooler?

[bob carnie]

I think Larry G on this site owns a LVT recorder and maybe could describe the outputs capability's in an enlarger.