the role of harsh criticism......

[Kirk Gittings]

from another thread about an upcoming workshops:

there will not be harsh criticism to bolster
egos, but we will gather to exchange ideas and nurture our creativity

IME harsh criticism is not always about bolstering egos. Sometimes it is a necessary kick in butt-like shock therapy. Nobody appreciates it in the short run, but I for one have, down the road apiece, swallowed my pride and learned allot from well intentioned but harsh criticism.

You?

I have on occasion (rarely), after much patience, resorted to harsh criticism of a couple my assistants and also some students of mine at SAIC, who were very talented but incredibly lazy. I figured I owed it to the student's parents who were shelling out mucho $s to go to the school. In a few of these cases they came back to me years later and said how much the criticism had meant to them and literally had turned their lives around.

[Robert Brummitt]

I remember getting a harsh critique from Arnold Newman back in '86. That was my third year in photography. I remember him asking what I wanted to do and what I was doing currently. I answered that I was working for a professional color lab and wanted to critique of what I was showing.
"Well, stay in the lab because photographers need good printers for their work"
Ouch!
Later, I sat by myself over lunch when John Sexton sat with me. He asked why I looked so gloomy. I told him what had been said and he smiled and said not to worry. Arnold can be a little rough to young photographers. He's just preparing you for what galleries or what others will say.
You can't please everyone, all the time.

[Alan Gales]

Kirk,

I agree with you 100%. Sometimes the truth hurts. When my daughter was 9 she was the best pitcher in her CYC league. At age 10 she made a select team but not as a pitcher. The coach said that she was not good enough which was the truth. She did not throw hard enough and was not accurate enough. It took her a year of training and hard work before she was even allowed to pitch on a select team.

Today we want everyone to be a winner and everyone to feel good!

[W K Longcor]

I guess you first have to decide "how harsh is harsh" -- and what are the circumstances. An amature with a phot of the kids -- "isn't that cute!" -- and leave it at that. Beyond that, we should all temper our critiques with an attempt at understanding the desires of the photographer.

My freshman year at RIT ( Back then, classes were held in a cave and we fought off saber tooth tigers). I had a basic photography class with Les Strobel -- an all around great guy and wonderful teacher. He always started off with something positive to say about your work. "A great concept or idea!" -- then he could tear your work to shreds -- and make you feel good about it!
My junior year, I had a studio photography class taught by several local professional photographers. These guys knew we were going to be facing far greater critics in the real world that we ever faced in school. Abe Josephson, had a way of telling you that what you handed in was a piece of crap ("take this back and redo it -- I won't accept crap like that from you! -- You can do better!") He would then take time to enumerate ALL that was wrong with your work. At the time he irked me no end -- but I am so thankful for the learning experience.
I taught photography in a professional art school for a number of years -- most ( but not all) of my students got the Strobel technique of critique. A few, who were aiming at working in the photo business got the Josephson critique.
One young lady who came to my class thinking she was a top photographer got it extra harsh. "How dare I give her a C- ? She ALWAYS got A's on her work before! A few years after she was out in the business, I ran into her. I got a big hug and kiss and a thank you for being so blunt. She said she never would have made it without the harsh crituque.
All that said --- how harsh should anyone be with a fellow LF forum menber. I'm guessing most here are NOT in the profession - but are here for the enjoyment. Maybe we should employ a set of special icons that members can use -- one for no critique want. Another for "please be kind". And, finally, "Tell ME! I want to learn!"

[Jeffrey Sipress]

"there will not be harsh criticism to bolster egos".

What? Isn't it the opposite? Either way, what's ego got to do with it. It's a learning experience.

[IanG]

Totally agree Kirk. Sometimes it's self inflated egos that are the problem and an inabilty to criticise ones own work. I've seen two cases at workshops where photographers recived very harsh criticism, which was from all concerned workshop leaders and participants.

In one case a very rich photographer presented an immaculate portfolio, but each image was an emulation of a well known master, no originality or anything of his ownpersonality, quite sterile nice images. He accepted the criticism well.

The other case was a highly competent portrait photographer who was torn to shreds for his landscapes. He's actually a friend and stopped all personal work after the criticism and turned to a new hobby, while still working as a social photographer (weddings and portraits).

Ian

[ROL]

In terms of academia, given that the parties are known and responsible, I think it can be entirely appropriate, if not necessary – at times. But it is a fine line. In the present generational climate of everyone's a winner, everybody gets a trophy: "Danger, danger, Will Robinson!"

I consider anything except velvet handed criticism in workshops and (internet forums) to be a trap. Those ostensibly seeking criticism are often in reality looking for approval. Brevity can be confused to easily with honesty and intention. It is difficult to discern relevant criticism from anonymous wanna–be's with untested opinions.

[Kirk Gittings]

Those ostensibly seeking criticism are often in reality looking for approval.

Boy ain't that the truth!

[msk2193]

from another thread about an upcoming workshops:

IME harsh criticism is not always about bolstering egos. Sometimes it is a necessary kick in butt-like shock therapy. Nobody appreciates it in the short run, but I for one have, down the road apiece, swallowed my pride and learned allot from well intentioned but harsh criticism.

Perfect, 100% in agreement.

[mdm]

There is no more useful critiscism than truthful harsh critiscism. It can help you see through your own lies to the real you within. The best photography communicates from that place.

For example Edward Weston photographed and printed peppers and shells from that deep personal space, I dont think he cared what we think about them, at least not when he was making them anyway, and they are uniquely his. Few people manage to communicate as truthfuly and beautifuly. You can see the same true self in Sudek's work for example, and Paul Caponigro too. In fact Caponigro sayes that himself, to be a good photographer one must understand and work on ones emotions. Is there anyone else who made his white deer or mouldy peach?

Sincerely helping people to see reality is helping them to be better people and photographers.