Wind Farms - Before pictures

[Tom J McDonald]

I actually find wind farms attractive in their own way.
Maybe because I don't see them everyday, not sure.

I also am attracted visually to coal-fired powerstations.

[Mike Anderson]

....Plus, when they wear out how do we dispose of these batteries and chemicals?

Burn 'em.

...Mike

[jp]

Plus, when they wear out how do we dispose of these batteries and chemicals?

Big Batteries are one of the mostly highly recycled items we have today. While these cars don't use lead acid batteries, I understand lead acid batteries to be 100% recyclable, and an unusually high percentage ends being recycled due to the system of "core charges" and so forth. I'm sure the special batteries these cars use will also end up recycled due to their high cost. Most of cars end up getting recycled before the end of their life anyways. They get totalled or have some little rust holes so they come off the road, get picked for parts, crushed and off to be new steel for something. My main beef with hybrids/electrics is that I want something simple and sporty for personal use. They mostly stopped making such cars 20 years ago though.



The other point worth making... Unrelated and should be a post by itself. There is a disconnect between what the public sees of a business and what actually happens.

Marketing != Business

Thus

Green Marketing != Green Business.

I'm self employed. I'm bad at green marketing but effective in green business. If there's someway to save money or do something favorable for the future of my company that happens to be green, I'm all over it. e.g. I choose solar panels for radio sites if they are cheaper than running power poles a long ways through the woods. I'd choose a hybrid car for my workers if its use meant a worthwhile savings in gasoline for it's particular use/route.

At the other end of the extreme, some businesses are good at marketing green and bad at doing it, which sets them up for hypocracy. I'm thinking of stories where ultra-earthy businesses promote recycling and don't bother to do it themself.

[tlitody]

No wind turbines are anywhere near "profitable." None will even return their cost. I see them as a short lived fad, just another way for politicians to hand other people's money over to their supporters. It's much like ethanol subsidies etc. Solar is even worse from a cost/reward benefit. It's all window dressing, something to allow politicians to speak "happy talk".


Kent in SD

All energy has it's root in solar power. Oil is the residue from solar power. Gas is the residue from solar power. Wind is the residue from solar power. But the thing that really shows how stupid humanity is, is that just a little way below your feet is enough stored heat energy to keep everyone in virtually free energy for the rest of humanity. Unfortunately because its virtually free no companies will invest in thermal energy.
A heat pump system for your home heating and hot water uses 1 unit of electricity to extract 4 from the ground and all you need is single electric pump to run it.
Costs quite a lot to install it (if you have the land and suitable underground geology) but once installed it costs next to nothing to run it.

Check out what they do in Iceland. OK they got it easy cos its so near to the surface. But in the UK we are already beginning to implement thermal heating systems for big city buildings because the on going heating costs are reduced.
Its simple for someone with a big garden to dig trenches to do self install of thermal heating sustems. AND because they are just heat exchangers they can be used to cool your house in summer too. Just think how much you wills save on running air conditioners when your hot water is generated from air heat exchangers.

[rguinter]

OT

The use of windmills to capture energy is part of the effort to prevent large scale human extinction due to our continuing global alteration of the composition of our atmosphere. We have increased the percentage of CO2 in the atmophere by 30% over pre-industrial levels (we have just hit 360 ppm vs 280 ppm max over the previous 400,000 years)....


There is a great YouTube channel by David Sinclair called "Climate Denial Crock of the Week" which is great.

We need many more windmills, solar panels and most importantly a means to sequester large amounts of CO2 from the atmosphere. The ultimate irony is that the Earth's massive mantle is comprised mostly of peridotite which obsorbs CO2....

Perhaps all this is barking up the wrong tree. Instead of advocating all this "green" growth in energy production (windmills, solar, etc.) and posing our "crock of the week" regarding denial of humanity-caused atmospheric changes, shouldn't we be looking at the "glut of humanity" itself as the root cause? Why is no-one advocating population controls?

Not too long ago when there was 1/10 the number of human beings on the planet we (essentially) had none of these problems.

So what shape are we going to be in (as a species) when there are 10 times more of us than there are now?

All the windmills and solar farms that could possibly be built will not suffice. And where will the food and water come from to feed this massive blob of humanity?

I wonder...

Bob G.

[Greg Lockrey]

Perhaps all this is barking up the wrong tree. Instead of advocating all this "green" growth in energy production (windmills, solar, etc.) and posing our "crock of the week" regarding denial of humanity-caused atmospheric changes, shouldn't we be looking at the "glut of humanity" itself as the root cause? Why is no-one advocating population controls?

Not too long ago when there was 1/10 the number of human beings on the planet we (essentially) had none of these problems.

So what shape are we going to be in (as a species) when there are 10 times more of us than there are now?

All the windmills and solar farms that could possibly be built will not suffice. And where will the food and water come from to feed this massive blob of humanity?


I wonder...

Bob G.

We do have human population controls.... we call them WARS.

[Mike Anderson]

...Why is no-one advocating population controls?

Some environmentalist (I forget who) said the very best thing a person can do for the environment is to not produce offspring.

...Mike

[Jay DeFehr]

Bob,

You make an interesting point. I have a friend who is a biologist and broken record on population control. He's a true Malthusian. My argument is that population density is required for cultural evolution, and our current standard of living (in industrialized nations) is higher than it's ever been. In fact, the place with the highest population density on earth (upper East side of Manhattan), also enjoys the highest standard of living. Meanwhile, places with the lowest population densities overwhelmingly endure the lowest standards of living.

I have a radical view; I think we're evolving beyond our environment. In the distant future, our descendants will be largely immune to environmental conditions.

[Drew Wiley]

Is dat how youse explain why New Yoikers is so rude to each other, ya doity joik?

[Jay DeFehr]

Drew,

I like your accent! Is there a difference between New Yoikers and New Yawkers?