A newbie asking silly questions.

[ashlee52]

Whatever screen size you use... 4x5 or 5x7 you will want to use a magnifier to focus anyway. I would be very surprised to find many labs which can process 5x7... certainly 4x5 is a more commercial standard. In 4x5 a 210 mm lens is remarkably versatile. The other "standard" lens size is 150mm. I often prefer the coverage of a 135but know that these have much less movement possible. 120mm is an odd size but an old 120mm Angulon would give you quite a bit of movement. The lenses used by most of the great large format photographers throughout history would often be considered pretty crappy these days... which is to say that you can make exceptional pictures with very old and inexpensive lenses. Compared with your RB67 which is a wonderful camera, everything will be harder at every step, especially since Polariods and Quick Loads are no longer available. Unless money is no issue, then home developing and scanning negatives to print digitally is often the cheapest, easiest, most practical path. There are not too many pictures you can take with a large format camera that you can not take well with an RB67, particularly if you scan negatives and can adjust perspective in photoshop... to me it is more about the effect that the slow bulky gear has on the photographer and the subject.

[rdenney]

...I have no darkroom, I´m not doing any developing work or printing at home. I use to hand over all this to my lab.

...I don´t think about contact prints or similar things, not about developers and developing times or the paper for printing.

You have limited time and I fully sympathize with that position. You have no intention of doing your own processing at all. So, before even contemplating what camera you might use, you MUST identify where you will get your film processed. This is a requirement. If you can't find a lab that can do 5x7 (and few do), then it is not the appropriate choice for your intentions. Once you have identified a stable lab service, then buy accordingly. I still think you will end up with 4x5--it is the most compatible with a person of limited time without giving up superior image quality.

Rick "noting that the workflow is more demanding than the camera choice" Denney

[falth j]

George,


Just my opinion from the little knowledge I had of LF photography when I started out on my LF adventure.


I was in your shoes not too long ago.


I have changed my ideas over time, but the best experience was to start with a 4x5 monorail that was decently built and plentiful.


Get a popular, decent monorail.


A monorail that is widely used and accepted in the LF community will have an abundance of ‘parts’ or accessories available, to build up a ‘system’ of lenses, bellows, backs, etc.


From a basic 4x5 camera, you can experiment, and have more readily available the different ‘parts’ you may/will want to buy to adjust and expand as your interests multiply.


The knowledge you will gain with a cheap 4x5 camera will serve you well, and once you understand the processes of LF photography, you will clearly be able to make a more educated interpretation of your needs, wants, and desires in a different style of camera other than a monorail, or format change if that should be the case as you gain LF maturity.


With a monorail, your chances of being constrained by mechanicals, will be minimalized if you purchase a decent, popular camera.

[megapickle1]

Hello, I´m back from work. And I have learned today that Fuji has discontinued FB100B 4x5 last year. What now? How to proof the shutter/exposure? It is easyer to win a lottery-jackpot than to get the right exposure with an unknown shutter. And every shutter is an unknown shutter for the first year in use. Bracketing is no way and expensive ($15 per shot=film, development, contactprint,scan).
In the afternoon I was up to throw away my plans regarding large format and buy some dope instead and watch as times go bye. GGGGG
So what, I have to find some Polaroid left over somewhere in the world.
Cheers
George

[Leigh]

And every shutter is an unknown shutter for the first year in use.

George,

You're making up problems that don't exist.

I started shooting, developing, and printing when I was 9 years old, and I'm older than you. I've never had an exposure error caused by the equipment.

Any modern shutter will hold speeds within 10% or so, except for the fastest speed, which is just there as a marketing gimmick. If you use a dial-set Compur or Ilex or other ancient shutter, you might have a problem. Stick with a modern Copal shutter, and it will still meet spec long after you've quit shooting.

Unless you're doing technical photography in the lab for scientific research, exposure simply does not need to be that precise. Modern black & white films will tolerate an exposure error of a full stop with no degradation of image quality.

Just buy a good exposure meter, learn how to use it, and calibrate your system.

- Leigh

[rdenney]

Hello, I´m back from work. And I have learned today that Fuji has discontinued FB100B 4x5 last year. What now? How to proof the shutter/exposure? It is easyer to win a lottery-jackpot than to get the right exposure with an unknown shutter. And every shutter is an unknown shutter for the first year in use. Bracketing is no way and expensive ($15 per shot=film, development, contactprint,scan).

You'll have to calibrate your system no matter what.

You can, however, still get the quarter-plate size Fuji instant film (FB100B without the 45 suffix). It is 3-1/4 by 4-1/4, but holders for it are made for 4x5. It's much cheaper than the 4x5, too.

The 4x5 Fujiroid is not cheap, either. In color, Fujiroid costs about $3 a picture.

You can also measure your shutter speeds well enough using a sound-card tester that is easy to build for a few dollars, or easier to by from ebay for a very few dollars more. For the speeds we use in large format, it's accurate enough for transparency film which is far more demanding than black and white.

A note on shutter speeds: Typical apertures for large format are f/22 and smaller. Using 100-speed film at f/22 in a view camera provides an exposure of 1/50 or thereabouts in bright sun. It is rare indeed that you will need shutter speeds faster than that. Most of my own shots seem to be in the 1/15 to 1-second range. A tester does not need to be very sophisticated to measure speeds in this range with sufficient accuracy.

Rick "warning of seeking precision greater than needed accuracy" Denney

[megapickle1]

@leigh @rdenny
My dear teachers (and I mean this sincerely). I am sure, you are doing all darkroom work by yourself including printing.
Working with my RB67 my experiance is that my well maintained lenses (leaf shutters) all have different speeds. Now I know them and I rareley need a polaroid proofing. I`m working with a 1° Pentax spot-meter all the time. I´m not afraid of exposure times of 1/2 second or longer. But I know that my 180mm lens will give me 1/4 sec. at 1/8 sec. or the 250mm lens is off 1/2 f-stop.
My plan is to contract models and take some photographs in the nature (no! no nudes). There I have to be absolutely sure about the right exposure because light is changing and the mood is changing too. A re-shoot will be very expensive for an amateur. Sometimes, so my experience, a 1/3 f-stop changes the whole picture. That are my fears. Sorry to be so anxious and want to do it perfect from the very first shot.
George

[rdenney]

My plan is to contract models and take some photographs in the nature (no! no nudes). There I have to be absolutely sure about the right exposure because light is changing and the mood is changing too. A re-shoot will be very expensive for an amateur. Sometimes, so my experience, a 1/3 f-stop changes the whole picture. That are my fears. Sorry to be so anxious and want to do it perfect from the very first shot.
George

I usually shoot transparency film with a dynamic range of about five stops. My shutters are all over the place. I measured them with a tester for which I paid $30, which is plenty adequate for the shutter speeds I'm likely to use.

Do not expect perfection if you do not intend to rehearse. The situation you describe cannot be resolved using instant film--the changing light won't give you time.

Instead, you may to trade some dollars in if you are going to be that sort of perfectionist. Send your new shutters to a shop for an overhaul, and they will come back accurate at least within a quarter stop, or will have a report showing what the actual speeds are. This is NOT difficult to do. Few do this, however, because it's so easy to test your shutters for yourself. Large format shutters have no integration with a camera body and are easy to test. You are making this much harder than it needs to be.

If you depend on others to do your black and white, then you have to test them as much as you test yourself. Color is more consistent and predictable with a good lab. It has been a long time since I processed my own black and white, though I intend to get back into it at some level. With scanning and digital manipulation, it's easier now than it ever was. But I've depended on lab service for the last 18 years.

I fear you are trying to start at the end instead of at the beginning. Give yourself some time to practice before hiring the models--it will really reduce your stress levels.

Rick "wondering if you really want to do this, given the roadblocks you keep throwing up" Denney

[Joseph Dickerson]

No silly question are possible until you've ask the same one more than 6 times!

I second what RD has to say...and will add that you should query your local community colleges or universities and see if you can't perhaps find one that teaches large format photography. Where I am (California) they are scarce but they do exist.

Also check for any Photo/Camera clubs or guilds with members who shoot large format.

After all, you are in the homeland of Der Linhof!

Film processing (4x5 or 5x7) can easily be done in a temporarily darkened bath room (loo?) and film loading in a changing tent or bag. I converted a small (really small) half bath for film processing using a JOBO processor. You can load your film into the processing tanks using the changing bag and do the actual developing in room light if need be. Look into JOBO or HP Combi tanks. Stay away from the Yankee daylight tanks. My experience with them is that it's impossible to get even agitation with them.

Good luck and keep checking in...you'll find that there is/are no shortage of opinions or helpful folks around here. We all started exactly where you are...step 1!

JD

[Leigh]

Working with my RB67 my experiance is that my well maintained lenses (leaf shutters) all have different speeds.
But I know that my 180mm lens will give me 1/4 sec. at 1/8 sec. or the 250mm lens is off 1/2 f-stop.

There's something seriously wrong with your equipment. If you're getting those results after a shutter has been serviced, find a different shop.

I repair LF shutters/lenses, and have for many decades. I would never let a shutter out of the shop with any error approaching the values you give.

- Leigh