"How much longer can photographic film hold on?"

[John Kasaian]

I wasn't making art, I was responding to a post about economics and sustainability of film vs digital. That aside, I disagree with your premise.

So the market has lilttle if any bearing on the economics and sustainabiity of film?

Now I'm confused.

There is a market for film. It isn't the traditional market but a market none the less. If film becomes too expensive for established companies to manufacture & market It is entirely conceivable there will be those who will coat their own glass plates or pioneer technologies to efficiently produce smaller runs of emulsions.
In which case film isn't dying. It is (or will be) evolving.

If there is a market.

Declaring film "dead" and waiting for someone to come along and bury it good and deep is contra to the interests of most people here, I'd think.

[Jay DeFehr]

Rick,

I used to worry about scanners, too, but I've since seen some impressive results from scans made with DSLRs.

[urs0polar]

Most of the current ingenuity is directed towards finding ways to avoid the necessity of lugging big cameras around, but I get your point. LF digital sensors that work like a film holder have been discussed, as an example, but it might also be possible to find a way to make home film coating practical and economical. I don't think that problem has been seriously investigated since George Eastman.

I think we should perhaps appreciate a little more the progress towards the holy grail that digital represents. Photographers have always wanted a small camera that makes a big negative, and digital technology is a way to (essentially) do that, and much, much more.

Agreed! We are actually in a pretty cool time right now... LF stuff is cheap, scanner tech is pretty good-ish (v700 not too bad for the price), and if you really try (and are a better technician than I am no doubt), you can compete with or outdo what digital has to offer (other than high ISO). Has there ever been a time when LF film was so good technically and LF itself was so cheap? I have a 8x10 Sinar P2... it's cheaper than a 5DII or D700. Pretty sweet. Someday the Leica S2 will be affordable used, as will digital MF backs, etc etc. I still like film though... I hope color 8x10 film lasts!!

[Marko]

Marko,

I mostly agree, but I would rather have film with angst than neither of both.

Well, then, your time is now, enjoy it while you can. Mine is both gone and coming.

[Drew Wiley]

Going back a few steps ... Consumer electronics is one of the least sustainable
industries on the planet given its rate of growth. At the consumer end a small digital
camera might seem to conserve a lot of what goes into film and be more cost effective. But cumulatively, things just can't go on at the present pace without a radical reinvention of what we consider digital. Unfortunately, each new tweak seems to reply on the same diminishing resources. One of the bloodiest battles on
the planet has been going on over a type a clay necessary to the computer industry.
It's not just diamonds people kill each other for. China recently blackmailed Japan
by withholding the export of certain rare earths essential to their electronics industry. None of this will determine the hypothetical fate of film; market pressures
and long term questions will. But some kind of crash is inevitable, and it could just
as easily be in something hi-tech. Once the necessary resources get scarce, they'll
be prioritized for military use (like Titanium in Britain). Some recycling obviously
takes place, but at staggering cost to human health and local environments.

[Drew Wiley]

Probably this kind of discussion should recognize the distinct difference between
keeping black and white film alive and color. Small coatings facilities could probably
keep black and white around for a long time. Quality color sheet films requires a far more involved infrastructure. But the real clincher will be the ongoing availability of suitable polyester bases. The overall movie industry is still probably a long ways from digital replacing film outright, especially if we conider its use worldwide; but
it needs a different kind of base than sheet film. I'm not particularly worried. Films
have come and gone all along, and there are still plenty around at the moment. The
only electronic devices I personally need are a light meter, enlarger control, and a film freezer.

[Brian C. Miller]

According to Photo Engineer on APUG, the polyester base is only available in appx. 1-mile lengths. Coating an emulsion onto a base can use a relatively small machine, but securing the base is another problem. Without the base, you don't have the film at all. The next problem is the color chemistry, or something like Kodachrome.

In the article, "A Brief History of Kodachrome," when Kodachrome was first introduced in 1936 it cost $3.50 per roll, approximately $54 adjusted for inflation.

How many of you would buy film at $55 per roll? Or $500 for ten sheets of 8x10? That kind of money would add up to a Pentax 645D pretty quick.

[Kirk Keyes]

In the article, "A Brief History of Kodachrome," when Kodachrome was first introduced in 1936 it cost $3.50 per roll, approximately $54 adjusted for inflation.

That probably included processing too, so it's not that bad!

[Robert Hughes]

I have a half dozen film cameras at least 50 years of age, all working. Load 'em up and go take pretty pictures.

I have three digital cameras - one already broken, one goes through a set of AA batteries in 15 minutes, and one cell phone/camera/calendar/personal disorganizer.

None of these digi devices will be operational in 5 years.

[Drew Wiley]

Brian - what did the first digitals cameras cost, or the first cell phones, etc; then adjust these for inflation - then you'll have more of a level playing field! And what is the sense of badmouthing film in the first place on a large-format forum? No mfg is going to invest in upgrading digital to LF anyway once things like Betterlite scanning backs are gone. It will all be MF or below. But as long as 4x5 film remains popular, then it is possible to order up 8x10 and so forth from the same batch. And popular 4x5
emulsions seem to get run fairly often, even in color film. Crocodiles, horshoe crabs,
and coelocanths might not exactly dominate the earth, but they have outlived the
age of dinosaurs and a whole lot more! I won't be around long enough, but if I was a
betting man, I'd better that digital photography AS WE NOW KNOW IT will be extinct
before film is.