PayPal as a Gift

[Michael Graves]

I saw an interesting one in an ad earlier this month. Seller stated s/he would not mark any forms as gift or indicate the sold price was lower than actual selling price.

Then goes on to ask the buyer to mark their the payment as a gift?

Mike

Hypocrisy is a wonderful thing, isn't it? When buying from somebody, I look at a request of any sort to dodge the rules as a true sign of their integrity. If they are willing to cheat Peter, what makes me think they won't cheat Michael? How much faith can you have in somebody who advertises on an Internet site that they are willing to violate rules and regulations? If you don't like the service -- don't use it! But if you use it, follow the #$#$%$#$# rules! And the rules, according to Paypal's rather lengthy policy statement include:

Gifts are intended to allow people to send money -- oddly enough, as a gift -- without the recipient incurring any fees. Anyone who can read English (or any of the various other languages in which the document may be obtained) can clearly see that they specify that the sale of products is NOT allowed to be processed as a gift.

They also specify that the seller cannot add fees for using the Paypal service. That is part of the cost of doing business. When you place an add that says that they buyer must pick up the fees, you are in violation of the rules. That is not to say that you cannot negotiate with the buyer to pick up the fees. There is no problem with that. Making it a term of the sale is the problem. And that is only exacerbated when the seller says, "PayPal only. You pay the fees." If the seller is dictating the terms then the seller is showing their true colors by forcing the issue.

As far as returns go, I don't see any hard and fast rule there regarding our forum. Personally, if somebody asks to return something because it isn't in the condition they expected, I have no problem with that. I try to be careful with my descriptions, but like everybody else, I miss things occasionally. I do, however, expect the buyer to pick up return shipping. Since I buy a whole lot more than I sell here I have been the recipient of three clinkers. Only once did it turn into an issue, and I just bit the bullet and ignore that seller now. The other two individuals had no problem whatsoever taking back the item, and I had no problem picking up the return shipping.

Ebay is another animal all together. All in all, I have had very good success as a buyer. Only once did I ever file a complaint against a seller. I received a camera listed as being in good condition. The shutter was jammed, it was encased in some white mildew or mold and all the chrome was so rust-pitted it looked brown. Either they had photographed a completely different camera for the listing, or somebody was EXCELLENT with Photoshop. When I said I wanted to return it, they gave me the electronic equivalent of the finger and told me to read the ad. No returns. I told them to read this....and filed a complaint with eBay. Therefore, I have a strong appreciation for their buyer protection plan.

[lenicolas]

Gifts are intended to allow people to send money -- oddly enough, as a gift --

It's not that odd...
I had a friend who visited me in Norway a couple of years ago, and lost his wallet.
He had his family send him money through western union.
The fees were worst than paypals

When he ran out of cash a few days later, instead of going western union again, i just gave his parents my email adress and they sent me money through paypal.
I withdrew it and gave it to him. for free.

I agree it's not that useful, and unlike the ebay situation, they don't have a monopoly for money transfer between people, but they are a cheap alternative to western union or bank transfers...



As for the OP's question, i agree with what was said (seveal times) above : just list your items a little bit higher and pay for all fees without bothering the buyer.

Any reasonable Ebay user with at least 10 transactions knows that you shouldn't buy from the cheapest seller. It's something you learn prety soon when buying on Ebay.

[Michael Graves]

[QUOTE=lenicolas;823746]It's not that odd...QUOTE]

Actually, the comment was intended as subtle sarcasm. I don't find it odd at all. I only find it odd that people object when Paypal does something about. Eddie's experience shows what can happen, even if you are NOT soliciting people to do it. I've dealt with him before, and he never once asked me to use the gift option. Nor do I ask for that option when I'm selling, although I have had people do it for me as a courtesy. I have also done it for other people as a courtesy. It was not my intent to suggest that using the "gift" option was always a matter of fraud. Only REQUIRING someone to use it.

[Scott Davis]

I recently sold a $2000 camera (my Zone VI 8x10) through here, and the camera went to someone in Hungary. I took PayPal, and we agreed to split the fee as it was not an inconsequential sum, especially once the shipping was factored in. However, as mentioned before in this thread, requiring that the buyer pay the fee is a violation of the PayPal terms of service. I was glad to use PayPal because it did offer me some degree of protection in the case that something went wrong - especially as the camera was being shipped to a distant corner of the planet. Everything did go well, and I'm glad the buyer got his camera and was happy with it. The peace of mind of having some kind of seller protection was in the end worth the 3% - I'd much rather be $60 poorer than $2000 poorer if something went wrong. From the buyer's perspective, if you pay by credit card when paying by PayPal, you always have the extra protection of your credit card's chargeback function, which in most cases is far better than PayPal's. For most things over $50, that's what I do - I learned my lesson the hard way when buying a film back for a Hasselblad.

I saw a newer-style A12 back listed on Ebay. The seller was (and still is) a well-known commercial photographer in LA. I bought it in preparation for going to Spain for two weeks. I thought I had enough time to receive it when I bought it. The seller dawdled with shipping it, so I asked him was there some way to expedite the shipping to be sure I got it in time? His response? "Expedited" meant that he took it to UPS and sent it UPS Ground from LA to DC. It was "Expedited" because he was planning to go to UPS the next day anyway, instead of waiting until the following week to put it in US Mail. I sent him a note expressing my disappointment about his "expediting" (the UPS Ground time quoted at the time was 7-9 days. It arrived in 9. USPS Priority Mail or FedEx would have put it there in 4). The back arrived the day before I left, and as it appeared the same cosmetically as it did in the photos, I merrily went on my way and used it in Spain. When I got back, the developed film told a different story - the gearing was worn out from over-use, and it would overlap the first two frames, then skip large gaps between all subsequent frames. I contacted him when I got back and told him about it and asked if he would split the cost of a repair - he told me in not so polite terms he was disinclined to acquiesce to my request because he felt he had done me a favor by "expediting" the shipping, and I was ungrateful. I opened a dispute with PayPal AND Ebay at that point, and they both just sat on it, never responding to my follow-up inquiries, until the dispute period had passed. Maybe their policies have changed significantly since that time (I want to say that was in 2005) but back then it was totally pro-seller.

[Michael Jones]

Maybe their policies have changed significantly since that time (I want to say that was in 2005) but back then it was totally pro-seller.

They might have; I just had the same experience as Michael. As the buyer, I complained and within 24 hours and one email, I had my money & return shipping back. Then the onus was one me to return the goods.

While I was unhappy about the transaction, I was pleased how eBay (& PayPal) handled it.

I, too, dislike the fees both charge, but business is business. They are in it for profit and I charge it off as a cost of doing business when I use their services. I charge people for what do in my real life, so I cannot complain.

I have to chuckle over PayPal's slogan about being the world's most loved way to pay & be paid...

Mike

[Scott Davis]

If someone were being truly honest about the world's most loved way to pay and be paid, it would have something to do with cash and prostitution. As it is, I'll leave the decision up to the PayPal marketing team.

[Vlad Soare]

I have to chuckle over PayPal's slogan about being the world's most loved way to pay & be paid...

Well, considering that there are probably millions of users, and we only hear from a few tens of unsatisfied ones (most of whom continue to use PayPal despite their lack of satisfaction), I think their claim might not be as false as it seems to be at first glance.
PayPal may be risky for a US-based seller, but for a buyer (or seller, for that matter) located outside US it's a real blessing.

[Brian Ellis]

i am not sure about the intricacies of banking safety protocols. i asked my banker several times to be sure that no one could steal my money by giving the info such as routing # and accout number...BUT remember that that info is on every check you write. many people see a check you write along the way. so i do not believe routing # and bank account # opens you up to possible fraud. ask your banker. i will ask mine again today and get the answer....and i will remember it this time! . . . eddie

I wouldn't rely on anything any banker told me about the safety of my account and funds. If someone taps your account the bank is not going to reimburse you no matter what you were told. Remember, these are the people who made billions of dollars by pooling bad mortgage loans and who now are foreclosing on people who can't pay loans the bank knew were bad at the time they were made. These people are not out to protect you, they're out to make money off of you any way they can.

[eddie]

These people are not out to protect you, they're out to make money off of you any way they can.

yes sir.

BUT, i do have a account that is only for paypal and transfers and other dodgy companies. it holds no money and is separate from my living funds.

just because i am paranoid does not mean they are not trying to get me.....har har har!

eddie

[Ron McElroy]

I wouldn't rely on anything any banker told me about the safety of my account and funds. If someone taps your account the bank is not going to reimburse you no matter what you were told. Remember, these are the people who made billions of dollars by pooling bad mortgage loans and who now are foreclosing on people who can't pay loans the bank knew were bad at the time they were made. These people are not out to protect you, they're out to make money off of you any way they can.

Just a FYI the company I work for has one 2 occasions had someone passing counterfeit checks. The police told use that anyone knowing the account and routing numbers could do the same.