Parkinson's Disease - the photographer's disease??

[N Dhananjay]

Proof needs to be much more concrete than instances. In fact, there is some interesting research in the psychology of judgments demonstrating that we often use the ease with which instances come to mind as a basis for judgments. So, for example, if we are asked for three instances when we behaved assertively (which is pretty easy to do), we rate ourselves as more assertive. However, if we are asked to come up with 12 examples of assertive behavior (which is pretty difficult to do), we rate ourselves as less assertive even though we came up with more instances of a particular behavior (almost as though we were saying to ourselves 'Man, that was hard - if it was that difficult, I guess I'm not a very assertive person). Its often referred to as the availability heuristic i.e., we often seem to make judgments based on the ease with which information comes to mind i.e., is available.

I think thats exactly what's happenning here. Coming up with a few examples of famous photographers who died of Parkinsons (or come to think of it cancer, leukemia or some ghastly thing or the other) is pretty easy to do, from which one makes a judgment that there is a causal link between being a photographer and disease X.

Duane raises another excellent point - what is referred to as a treatment effect. So, it is not sufficient to show that the percentage of photographers who suffer from Parkinsons is statistically greater than the average percentage in the population (although even that bit of evidence doesn't seem to be forthcoming). One needs to be able to control for the fact that they live longer to begin with and are therefore, more susceptible to the diseases that afflict the elderly. More convincing, of course, would be some triangulating evidence from pathology etc.

Again, this is not meant to be a suggestion to drink pyro or make selenium bongs. There is no doubt that we do use some chemicals that are hazardous and should be treated with appropriate caution (a caution that doesn't seem to be exercise with other household products like bleach, pesticides etc but thats another story).

OK, I'll shut up now.... Cheers, DJ.

[Micah Marty]

I didn't bother to look up the context of (biographer) Mary Alinder's reference to Parkinson's as "the photographers' disease" (as the original poster put it). But before we get all exercised about how many people really think there might be a connection between photography and Parkinson's, it might be worth asking whether that was HER designation (she's a medical professional, quite intelligent despite being married to a photographer) or whether that was more Ansel's perspective (by the time Alinder met Ansel, he was a superstitious and idiosyncratic old guy whose unscientific theories about Parkinson's would have doubtless been shaped primarily by watching two of his most influential contemporaries--Bourke-White and Edward Weston--die of the disease).

Whatever the case, I'm pretty sure that this discussion has been the first in this forum to elicit the phrase "selenium bongs."

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[fw]

Wayne ; I can't find a reference to support a link between pyro and Parkinson's disease, but I would refer you to pages 60 - 64 of The Book of Pyro which discusses the toxicity of this chemical, with supporting references, in some detail. In particular, long term exposure does appear to cause kidney damage.

Anyway, it's time for some sex on the beach - sorry, I mean some negative spotting.....

[Julio Fernandez]

WOW!!! The LF FORUM is now into epidemiology and psychology. And why not? it all ties together. The LFF may even teach enough English to straighten our syntax and learn to say that 'we dip hands in chemicals' and not in 'chemistry'. Perhaps it may even help us appreciate that everything on earth, -no exceptions except for physical phenomena is a chemical. I cringe at the perversion of the use of the word 'chemical' as for example in a 'chemical-free world'. That is a vaccuum. Aside from those quibbles my thanks to the historians, the physician, the psychologist, and the long list of amateur epidemiologists, ......on short leave from the darkroom.

[Struan Gray]

Anecdote isn't proof. My grandfather smoked vast quantities of tobacco throughout his liftime, and lived to a ripe old age.

As others have hinted, you need to do a proper study of a population of photographers before you can identify to causal links. The Swedish pro photographers' association did a reasonable a couple of years ago. Apart from things which should properly be classed as accidents (e.g. burns from dropping a Winchester of glacial acetic acid) they found only two good correlations: allergic reactions to some developers, particularly metol, and bad backs from humping too much gear around in a shoulder bag.

[Ed Buffaloe]

In response to an earlier post, I never asserted a definitive link between pyro and Parkinson's disease, I merely suggested the possibility. Pyro can cause kidney and liver damage and is almost certainly carcinogenic. It is not a great stretch to assume it might cause neurological disorders as well. But I am not a physician and do not claim to speak definitively. To put my much-quoted statement in its proper context, I go on to say: "But it is easy to over-react: simple kitchen gloves and eye-wear are adequate protection when handling pyro solutions. An occasional few drops of dilute solution on the skin can be flushed with water and are no cause for alarm. Long-term exposure is another matter..."

[Sean Billy Bob Boy yates]

"We all know exposure to any kind of chemicals is bad. I've even heard the chems affect male sperm."

Is there any other kind of sperm?

[Mark Minard]

THANK YOU for explaining the Weston's black fingernails... I thought that Edward had painted his black as some sort of personal statement, and that Brett was just keeping up the tradition! Boy do I feel like an ass...

[Sissle]

Hi fellow professionel photographers, I have thoroughly enjoyed this line and although being only 39 yrs old, I am wondering what my future will bring in relation to all this, as I print my platinum prints myself 'from scratch' and although I have ventilation, and a fuming cupboard, sometimes the fumes seems pretty serious, and Im not sure if my slight dizzyness after a long day and nights work, may be from bodily exhaustion or fume exhaustion... And regarding the 'male sperm', as a woman, I am sure hazardous chemicals has effects on the reproductive system too. Some of my fellow women professional photographers put their childlessness down to prolonged exposure to darkroom chemicals. Still we all have to die of something, and I think its important to highlight, that we are some of the lucky people in the world, who have found our 'metier' or 'vocation', which we live 100 % for, and surely this positivity will help prolong our lives !

May you all live long and prosper !!! Yours Ms. S

[Erik Gould]

I think everyone owes it to themselves to understand the risks they might be taking in doing any sort of work. To that end I suggest photographic print makers check out the book "Overexposure: Health Hazards in Photography" by Shaw and Rossol. This book covers materials and chemistry used in b/w, color,non-silver,and printmaking (ink) processes. It outlines specific hazards and suggests safe working methods. In most cases I think one will find that the materials they are working with can be used quite safely, eliminating any doubts about reproductive health, PK, cancer etc.