Drum or flat scan?

[Evanjoe610]

Hi Lenny,

Been following this thread for awhile and I'm also on another thread on the Rangefinder Forum. I 'm seeing some fantastic scans coming off a Scanview Scanmate SM11000 scanner.

Who still makes drum scanners at the point that ARE AFFORDABLE still? Any particular used drum scanner that is truly a desktop model that has spare part supplies and
support that you are aware of?

I turned down several complete Hell drum scanners that is more in line with a prepress shop. And they were for FREE!

I'm currently using 3 different film scanners for my personal scans. I have a Canon FS4000US film scanner for all 35mm work. An Imacon Precision II and a Creo/Scitex Eversmart Pro II with a recently acquired Oil Mounting Station. These scanners are spread out among my G4 MMD either with SCSI or UBS connection. In the case of the Imacon & Cre/Scitex I have several Brand New RatoFRS1X adapters. All of these scanners could go with the installed SCSI connection. However to utilize the newest possible software, its better to go with the Ratoc.

I like the results I'm seeing off the SM11000, as it is the only drum scanner that I KNOW of that has 11,000 dpi. Very good tonal range and smooth transition from 3/4 tone to end pooint, the hardest area to achieve.

[LF_rookie_to_be]

It's my understanding that no drum scanners are being made any more completely new. ICG in England, Aztek in USA and maybe still Dainippon Screen in Japan still offer a few models for sale as "new", but the presence of G4 Macs (discontinued in 2003!) with those models may mean these are "highly refurbished" models, as opposed to "refurbished", also on offer from the former two. They probably have a lot of spare parts to re-build a used scanner they can offer service for. Or still have brand new in stock sitting for over a decade, who knows. If anyone really does know for fact, please correct me.

If you have the room and can organize transport, I'd go back to offers for Hell scanners, or perhaps Crosfield/Fujifilm. If you don't have enough footprint, but a high enough ceiling, look for ICG and Heidelberg (Tango/Primescan). If you're limited with space, desktop drum scanner is your only choice (Aztek/Howtek, Celsis 240, Optronics, Scanmate, Screen DTS-1030ai), but do get one you can personally test, and preferably transport yourself.

[Lenny Eiger]

Hi Lenny,
Been following this thread for awhile and I'm also on another thread on the Rangefinder Forum. I 'm seeing some fantastic scans coming off a Scanview Scanmate SM11000 scanner.
Who still makes drum scanners at the point that ARE AFFORDABLE still? Any particular used drum scanner that is truly a desktop model that has spare part supplies and support that you are aware of?
I like the results I'm seeing off the SM11000, as it is the only drum scanner that I KNOW of that has 11,000 dpi. Very good tonal range and smooth transition from 3/4 tone to end pooint, the hardest area to achieve.

Aztek still makes brand new scanners if you want them. (I honestly don't know what ICG does.) However, brand new and inexpensive don't really go together...

There are plenty of used Azteks/Howteks out there and I think they are the best bang for the buck. They still support the 4500, 7500, 8000 and Premier models. They have plenty of spare parts.

The Premier is the best in that group, altho the 8000's are very close. I have seen some excellent scans off of a Scanmate 11,000. The person was using Color Quartet and that looked just plain awful as a software platform.

Be careful about the numbers. The real number, optical resolution is never listed. 8,000's and Premiers have an optical resolution of about 7400ppi/spi/dpi. That's very close to the 8,000 that they max out at. Despite the fact that a Scanmate 11,000 can generate 11,000 pixels (so can the Tango) it doesn't mean it can resolve at that level. In fact, the level is likely at about 4,000, given that the units are based on a 6 micron engine. (There are approximately 4,000 6 micron slices in an inch.) Premier's have a stepper motor that can do 18,000 individual steps, they could have given you 18,000 ppi/spi/dpi. However, they chose not to, so that the resolution (number of pixels) and the actual optical resolution were in step.

Hope this helps.


Lenny

[Otto Seaman]

Trust in Lenny.

Some of the old drums that used to be quite expensive, like the Hieldeberg Tango, were designed to do more quantity than quality...

[Tyler Boley]

actually at my friend Walker's place called "Latitude" in Chicago you can indeed rent time on a drum scanner.. Everyone in Chicago should know about that place.
Tyler

[LF_rookie_to_be]

Lenny, I'd be interested to know which computers Aztek offers with these brand new scanners. Are these all still SCSI units? How does one use a SCSI device with a modern Windows 7/8 PC or OS X 10.7/8 Mac without resorting to FRS1X or similar adapters?

[Nathan Potter]

I recently posted a V750 scanned 4X5 image of the Chateau Lake Louise and Mt. Victoria take from across the valley using a TK45 with a 500 mm Nikon T ED lens. Camera and lens were mounted using multiple bean bags on a robust picnic table for ultimate stability on a zero wind day. Inspection of the 4X5 chrome shows that that the window shades are actually clearly visible in the chateau windows. The original chrome is pictured again below. For a fuller view go to the Flickr site.

The next post shows a 10X enlargement of the Chateau from the 4X5 Epson scanned chrome. It was wet scanned at 2400DPI. If you make a print of the Chateau you'll get an idea of what to expect from a 40 X 50 inch print from an Epson scan. OK for distance viewing but for critical close view really inadequate from my point of view. For posters, OK; for fine art, it's junk. The 10X enlargement is also on my Flickr site.


45MN-34H)crop1,2[t1 by hypolimnas, on Flickr

Nate Potter, Austin TX.

[Nathan Potter]

Below is the 10X enlargement (40 X 50 inch size) referred to in the previous post.


45MN-34-H)crop1,2[t1M2 by hypolimnas, on Flickr

Better visibility on my Flickr site.

Nate Potter, Austin TX.

[Bodyslam]

Lenny, I'd be interested to know which computers Aztek offers with these brand new scanners. Are these all still SCSI units? How does one use a SCSI device with a modern Windows 7/8 PC or OS X 10.7/8 Mac without resorting to FRS1X or similar adapters?

Most of this information is easily available on Aztek's site. The software that they make and sell, Digital Photo Lab, runs on Windows. They have recommended Windows 7 Pro 32 bit as the best version. There isn't any problem finding that OS or computers that will run it. Of course they will configure a computer and sell it to you, if that's your wish, including the Adaptec SCSI card that they have found to be most reliable, or you can put one together yourself.

They also have some dongles for sale for those who would prefer to run Trident on a Mac for the Howteks. There was never a version of that for the Premier. It only runs on OS9, meaning you're limited to G4's or earlier. Actually the G3 is more than enough computer for this job. Running a drum scanner is not actually a computer-intensive task.

The only OSX software made for the Howtek scanners is Silverfast. It's not their latest version; they stopped developing it for the Howteks at version 6.6, and it doesn't support the Premier nor the Howtek 8000. You should be able to get a G5 working with a SCSI card and running this software pretty easily.

There are partisans for each of these software solutions here on the forums--use the search function if you want to read the opinions of people successfully using them.

[Evanjoe610]

Lenny,

Thank You for the update Information on Aztek support of the 4500, 7500, 8000 and Premier models. I used to operate a Crosfield drum scanner and a Hell scanner. I also operated a med-range Optronics ColorGetter Scanner with post Color correction using the Kodak Prophecy system!

Worked the entire gamut of Scitex based scanners up to thE IQSmart 3. I had at one point (3) Scitex scanners with just one remaining, the Eversmart Pro II on a Ratoc FRS1X ADAPTER.

I would rather can in OSX r Windows & instead of OS9.22 as I find it ancient and too many steps to move my images up to OSX platform.

I will look around for a used or refurbished scanner among the mentioned scanners you listed as the 4500, 7500, 8000 and Premier models.
I saw many scans that came off a ScanMate SM11000 that was fantastic, mostly likely the PMT. Smooth transition within the 3/4 tone to the end point.

Of course I have to make some room in my little home office if I buy into a Howtek drum scanner..